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Religion » Catholicism » Yesterday 10:59 pm

Brian
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FrenchySkepticalCatholic wrote:

Greg wrote:

Extraordinary Form

Just passing by, and I figured I could add this -- Extraordinary Form doesn't mean it's a "supermass", but is exactly "down to earth" to its meaning, e.g. "out of the ordinary". I often have sedevacantist friends making the mistake.

 
Could someone either elaborate on, or point to a source that elaborates on the different types of mass?   I take it that all masses have at their "core" Communion, or I suppose it is more accurately called the Eucharist.   But are there are a bunch of different types?

For reference, I grew up in a very traditional and conservative branch of Lutheranism, that I was always told was very liturgical and traditional as far as Protestantism goes, but Catholicism seems liturgical on a whole new level.  Even on Easter or Christmas or Lent Wednesday services the church service was essentially structured the same so I guess we only had one type of service?

Sedevacantism is also a very interesting topic I have been watching some YouTube videos on.  There is a book called The Destruction of the Christian Tradition  by Rama Coomaraswamy that looks to argue that case very strongly, but it also seems that Papal law dictates that sedevacantists are necessarily excommunicated, even if not formally so by the church (or at least a lot of people argue that).

Religion » Catholicism » 1/18/2018 12:27 pm

Brian
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Greg wrote:

I mentioned Cardinal Newman in the other thread, and he is a good place to start to understand the impulse of Catholicism. His Apologia Pro Vita Sua and The Development of Christian Doctrine are both suited to your aim. It's usually worth perusing his sermons as well. Many of his writings are available online.

If you want to become acquainted with Catholic literature, then Flannery O'Connor and Evelyn Waugh are good authors to start with. Everything by O'Connor is great; her short stories in particular are very entertaining and reasonably short, but her novels are also great. Waugh's Brideshead Revisited is popular, and there's a very good and faithful 10-episode BBC series. I think his satire is even better, though, and I'd particularly recommend A Handful of Dust and Helena.

As regards philosophy, it is worth dabbling in Anscombe. Her recently released collection of papers Faith in a Hard Ground would be suitable to your end.

Pope John Paul II's Veritatis splendor is a good summary and restatement of the Church's moral theology.

The Latin Mass is indeed beautiful. I found it helpful to go to a low Mass on a weekday. Large parts of the Latin Mass are said silently, and the congregation is not meant to hear them. But even the parts that are said audibly can be hard to hear in a larger Church, especially if you are not sitting up front. That can make it harder to follow along in a Missal, if you're not familiar with what's going on.

Churches which offer the Latin Mass almost inevitably lay out Missal booklets with the ordinary prayers of the Mass, but it's best if you can get your hands on a full 1962 Daily Missal, as that will contain the commons and the propers for the day. Some Churches lay those out as well.

On the other hand, it's hard to get used to using a Missal anyway, and perhaps you just want to find a high Mass, as that is certainly the most beautiful.

 
Greg,

Thank

Religion » Catholicism » 1/14/2018 10:56 pm

Brian
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lacktone wrote:

Funny, before I declared atheism it was Catholicism I was brought up in. My parents were really seriously into the pageantry of that religion and insisted their 5 kids were exposed to all of it. My mother, in particular, I dubbed a cathaholic. The various steps of Catholic training kids were indoctrinated in was such a religious meme, which one can call it these days, of reinforcement that it's not a stretch to see how people succumb to it.

If the service was straight forward with bible-speak relevant to the community's make-up and needs I'd have given it some kudos for effort. But, it was just a guy in his service garb spouting the usual religious stuff, followed by the ridiculous ceremonial communion that was supposed to symbolize receiving the body of Christ, and then followed up by some closing sermonizing. This becomes a pageantry of ceremonial pomp and circumstance during the religious holidays. Forgive my irreverence but religions just make no sense to me. I see them as idol worship whereas the commandment "thou shalt have no other gods before me" gets totally blown out of the water by their existence. Religions are exactly that. Case in point, if you have a genuine sense of your god and truly believe you can worship it without channeling that worship through a religion or other agent, then why employ such a device? The sense of (spiritual) community it provides? Well, okay but that's a wholly secular reinforcement to something you should already have high and tight without externally propping it up with the herd instinct.

I say try to be your own spirituality for your own life and put some distance between yourself and the organized faith purveyors. If you can do that, you're genuinely one with your god. Otherwise, not so much.
 

Lacktone,

That didn't even attempt to answer my question.  You also seem to have a lot of misunderstandings about the ritualistic aspects of religion.

RomanJoe,

Thanks, I will definitely have to read Or

Religion » Catholicism » 1/13/2018 6:42 pm

Brian
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As something akin to a new Year's resolution I've decided to dive into learning about Catholicism this year.  I grew up protestant and am familiar with Ancient philosophy, so I am not ignorant of historical Christianity, but am looking to learn specifically about Catholic practice, art, history,  and obviously philosophy.

Does anyone have any recommendations of books or things to look into?

I am planning on attending a traditional Catholic mass (which I have never done,  it sounds like a beautiful experience), and I just finished reading G.K. Chesterton's short biography of St. Thomas Aquinas.  As for other books on my list, I have the Story of Monasticism, by Greg Peters, and a book by Rene Guenon dealing with Freemasonry and the traditional Catholic  workers guilds of the middle ages.  I'm also considering rereading Elementary Christian Metaphysics by Joseph Owens and eventually want to read some St. Bonaventure with a commentary I found.

Any other suggestions on books or art or literature or anything to immerse myself in catholicism?   

Thanks!

Practical Philosophy » Moderate Psychedelic Drug Use » 1/06/2018 1:03 pm

Brian
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99% of people who take drugs do it for the explicit purpose of feeling pleasure.   Almost all talk of this different states of consciousness talk is rhetorical justification.  If life's goal is something higher than pleasure, then drug use is at the least unhelpful.

The other 1% of cases are more complex.

Practical Philosophy » The death of American principle » 11/07/2017 11:21 am

Brian
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Trump is the end if a long decay of conservative values.  Conservatives over the last 50 years have sold out on their values for a varity of bad reasons.   Case in point, the Republican hero par excellence is Raegan, an actor from Hollywood who cared far more about libertarian economics than he did genuine conservative principles.  He's single-handedly responsible for the divirce rate exploding considering his role in make "irreconcileable differences" a legitimate readon for divorce.   I think the same can be said about the Moral Majority movement of the 90s.  It was a lot of empty promises that persuaded conservative christians to vote for pro-corporate partisans.  I don't think there are many genuinely consetvative people in America.  There are increasing amounts of reactionaries though, posing as conservatives.

Practical Philosophy » Are There Gender Specific Virtues? » 9/04/2017 1:36 pm

Brian
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I think to answer that question properly, you would need to answer the question, do the different genders have different ends or telos?   (I have no idea what the plural of telos is, sorry.)

If the genders have different goals, then they will have different virtues, as virtues are habits that help a given entity to reach their goal.

Chit-Chat » Best books on Saint Bonaventure? » 7/27/2017 2:53 pm

Brian
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I recently downloaded a book called A Way Into Scholasticism by Peter S. Dillard.   He is basically doing what Feser does for Aquinas, except he does it for Bonaventure.  The book is primarily a companion to Journey from the Mind to God.  I only have the read the first bit but I enjoyed it.   I recommend checking it out.

Practical Philosophy » Resources on Political, Economical and Ethical philosophy » 7/08/2017 12:54 pm

Brian
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That's a very broad question, but the classics that come to mind (which are still very relevant) are Plato's Republic and Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics as well as his Politics.  Were you looking for something more specific?  

Socrates seemed to imply at times that all of his philosophical questioning was aimed at being a good citizen.  Even Plato's dense metaphysical dialogues like the Parmenides or the Sophist ostensibly aimed at figuring out things that would help citizens in daily life, like distinguishing between charlatans (sophists) and knowledgeable leaders (philosophers).

Practical Philosophy » Systematic Ethics » 6/02/2017 8:55 am

Brian
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The questions you are asking are usually classified as "meta-ethics".  Meta-ethics asks about things like the nature of moral propositions, the knowability of moral truths, and other various topics that are focused on the nature of moral truths and systems. 

For whatever reason it seems that most philosophers who ask questions like this get mired in questions about ethics without ever arriving at ethics, if that makes sense.  Since we all have a sort of morality and all live in a world steeped in moral language and judgments, I would recommend starting your moral inquiry from that point of view, as opposed to something like metaphysics or epistemology where it seems easier to start from a purely abstract and theoretical point of view.  This was Socrates' method.  For example it might be easier/more useful to start by reading a text on virtue ethics or utilitarianism than by looking for a systematic text on abstract questions about the foundations of norality.

As far as a text dealing with the questions you are asking about, which are indeed good questions, I will let others offer recommendations.  None of that is to discourage you from asking about meta-ethics.  Just offering my teo cents.

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