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3/29/2016 11:15 pm  #1


'Pro-life' and 'pro-choice'

I came across this article recently. This sort of strategy for widening the 'pro-life' label has a bit of a history.

I find this way of carving up the terms unhelpful. It's usually accompanied by complaints that 'pro-life' usually just means 'anti-abortion'; I agree, but I say, What's wrong with that? 'Pro-life' and 'pro-choice' are at their best political labels (at their worst, rhetorical cudgels). Peter Singer likes to point out that pro-lifers are not pro-all-life, they are pro-human-life. The same is true of pro-choicers; there are lots of choices they would regard as repugnant. In this best case, calling someone 'pro-life' or 'pro-choice' just tells you something helpful about the beliefs and commitments he or she shares with other people falling under that label. That's it.

I want to put the problem this way: 'Pro-life' and 'pro-choice' are not middle terms in demonstrations. I'll make this point with an analogy. I've noticed that a couple GOP candidates (Rubio and Cruz, mainly) give something like the following argument in their stump speeches: "Conservative policy is good; my policies are conservative; thus my policies are good." This is to use "conservative" as a middle term; in this capacity it isn't a helpful term, and mainly plays off of people's loyalties to the first premise. It also makes reappropriation of the term very easy, so that Donald Trump can brand himself as a "common sense conservative" to defend a very different slate of policies. (It also appeals and has rhetorical force mainly with "the base"; it's a worse argument in a general election where people doubt that "conservative policy is good".)

Some of this has a certain place in politics where rhetoric and persuasion (which I don't necessarily intend pejoratively) are deployed. But its use is limited.

It is better to argue directly that policies are good, and perhaps then note that, since lots of good policies are conservative (if that's in fact the case) that conservative policies tend to be good. (Maybe the original inference becomes legitimate if you've adequately justified this induction. This has not likely been accomplished.) In the order of knowing, the judgment that conservative policies are good would have to be posterior to showing that individual conservative policies are good. To try to argue from a policy's being conservative to its being good is, usually, to get things backwards.

I think 'pro-life' faces similar problems. The original reason for having a term 'pro-life' was to flag a commitment to respecting the moral absolute against intentionally killing the innocent. That requirement never changes depending on time, place, or resources. People aim to justify all sorts of things with it by proposing policies that are broadly related to 'life'. Then those who are anti-abortion but don't support a $15 minimum wage are critiqued as hypocrites, probably inconsistent because motivated by misogyny.

Of course, maybe a $15 minimum wage is, in the end, a good policy for those aiming to reduce the number of abortions. The trouble for arguing that it's a good policy because it's pro-life is that the force of that designation used to rely on the soundness of the no-intentional-killings-of-the-innocent principle. The justification of a $15 minimum wage, even if it is indeed justified, would be totally different; one has to argue for the efficacy of a particular economic policy in these circumstances, etc., that there would not be other adverse consequences, etc.

The same issues crop up with the death penalty. I sometimes get the impression that some Catholic prelates, for instance, want to use the idea of a consistent life ethic to try to accuse liberals of hypocrisy in opposing the death penalty but supporting abortion. I think it's a totally hopeless endeavor; the fact that conservatives and liberals hold opposite positions on the death penalty and abortion should be some evidence that they are reasoning from very different principles, and you can't win anyone over just by pinning some commitment to avoiding damage to "life" on them.

Last edited by Greg (3/29/2016 11:15 pm)

 

3/30/2016 2:00 am  #2


Re: 'Pro-life' and 'pro-choice'

I don't know exactly why anti-abortion and pro-abortion aren't used. The argument is about abortion, and those who are in favor of abortion use arguments that reference a certain kind of right to a certain kind of choice while those who are against abortion use arguments that make reference to the status of a living thing in certain circumstances.

I think it's mainly because the word abortion is thought ugly and is meant only to be used as a kind of slur.


Fighting to the death "the noonday demon" of Acedia.
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It is precisely “values” that are the powerless and threadbare mask of the objectification of beings, an objectification that has become flat and devoid of background. No one dies for mere values.
~Martin Heidegger
 

3/30/2016 9:46 am  #3


Re: 'Pro-life' and 'pro-choice'

Yeah, I'm not sure.

Obviously, there is also the thought that if we can formulate the dispute in terms of more general principles, we can be more persuasive. So abortion advocates do not say, "You oppose my getting an abortion," which is obvious and not particularly worth pointing out, but, "You oppose my right to choose," which sounds more like I am infringing on your freedom. But of course it's just "the right to choose abortion" that we're interested in, since we all think that the right to choose requires qualification.

     Thread Starter
 

3/30/2016 10:03 am  #4


Re: 'Pro-life' and 'pro-choice'

I mean, I guess, but it's so idiotic that I don't believe it should work and *if* it works (and this goes for both sides) I think it a kind of deception.


Fighting to the death "the noonday demon" of Acedia.
My Books
It is precisely “values” that are the powerless and threadbare mask of the objectification of beings, an objectification that has become flat and devoid of background. No one dies for mere values.
~Martin Heidegger
 

3/30/2016 2:43 pm  #5


Re: 'Pro-life' and 'pro-choice'

I think only a minority of the people who think abortion should be legal, and even of the people who think it should be not only legal but made cheap, easy and shameless, are, strictly speaking, "pro-abortion". The impression I get is that most of the "pro-choice" crowd regards it as a lesser evil to the alternatives. This isn't a meaningless distinction, because it's the same distinction by which a person who believes a certain war should be waged because it is just is not, therefore, simply "pro-war".

Last edited by Seán Mac Críodáin (3/30/2016 2:44 pm)


"Is it not excessively ridiculous to seek the good opinion of those whom you would never wish to be like?"

+St John Chrysostom
 

3/30/2016 3:01 pm  #6


Re: 'Pro-life' and 'pro-choice'

Seán Mac Críodáin wrote:

I think only a minority of the people who think abortion should be legal, and even of the people who think it should be not only legal but made cheap, easy and shameless, are, strictly speaking, "pro-abortion". The impression I get is that most of the "pro-choice" crowd regards it as a lesser evil to the alternatives. This isn't a meaningless distinction, because it's the same distinction by which a person who believes a certain war should be waged because it is just is not, therefore, simply "pro-war".

Pro-legal-abortion not abortion überhaupt. I'm mainly just concerned that the basic terms have nothing to do with abortion in an argument over abortion.


Fighting to the death "the noonday demon" of Acedia.
My Books
It is precisely “values” that are the powerless and threadbare mask of the objectification of beings, an objectification that has become flat and devoid of background. No one dies for mere values.
~Martin Heidegger
 

3/30/2016 3:25 pm  #7


Re: 'Pro-life' and 'pro-choice'

iwpoe wrote:

Seán Mac Críodáin wrote:

I think only a minority of the people who think abortion should be legal, and even of the people who think it should be not only legal but made cheap, easy and shameless, are, strictly speaking, "pro-abortion". The impression I get is that most of the "pro-choice" crowd regards it as a lesser evil to the alternatives. This isn't a meaningless distinction, because it's the same distinction by which a person who believes a certain war should be waged because it is just is not, therefore, simply "pro-war".

Pro-legal-abortion not abortion überhaupt. I'm mainly just concerned that the basic terms have nothing to do with abortion in an argument over abortion.

Right, it's because both sides are choosing to locate their identity in the reasoning behind their position on abortion, rather than the position itself. It's all a rhetorical game, of course, and a meaningless one at this point, because to nearly everyone, "pro-life" is a code-word for "thinks abortion should not be legal", and vice versa. Though, you will get the occasional odd duck, like me in a former life, who will insist on something like "pro-abortion" because they're in favour of abortion but not especially keen on choice.


"Is it not excessively ridiculous to seek the good opinion of those whom you would never wish to be like?"

+St John Chrysostom
 

3/30/2016 3:38 pm  #8


Re: 'Pro-life' and 'pro-choice'

Does not the term 'Pro-Life' have associations with the idea of the sanctity of Life, that is Life having absolute as opposed to consequentialy relative value? Hence a general ‘Pro-Life’ position tends to imply certain stances in bioethics, warfare and legal theory re capital punishment as well as being anti-abortion.

Personally I think the term 'Pro-Choice' is stupid, a flagrant attempt to change the subject to some alleged debate re womans rights.
 

 

3/30/2016 3:44 pm  #9


Re: 'Pro-life' and 'pro-choice'

DanielCC wrote:

Does not the term 'Pro-Life' have associations with the idea of the sanctity of Life, that is Life having absolute as opposed to consequentialy relative value? Hence a general ‘Pro-Life’ position tends to imply certain stances in bioethics, warfare and legal theory re capital punishment as well as being anti-abortion.

A fair number of people take that stance, yes. It seems to me to be a deeply mistaken one, because it means they've taken "pro-life" to be a dogma of the faith and then reasoned out its implications, when this is an error.


"Is it not excessively ridiculous to seek the good opinion of those whom you would never wish to be like?"

+St John Chrysostom
 

3/30/2016 3:52 pm  #10


Re: 'Pro-life' and 'pro-choice'

May imply in principal, but as a political fact of the matter, the position is about the legal restriction of abortion. Might as well call it pro-goodness. It's cheap. And I'm willing to agree with much talk about the legal restriction of abortion, but it cheapens the whole thing to pretend as if your political platform is more general than it is.


Fighting to the death "the noonday demon" of Acedia.
My Books
It is precisely “values” that are the powerless and threadbare mask of the objectification of beings, an objectification that has become flat and devoid of background. No one dies for mere values.
~Martin Heidegger
 

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