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10/14/2017 6:02 pm  #21


Re: Conservatism and Racism

am93 wrote:

That they are allowed to exist is a problem, even if they don't pose a great threat they still sympathise with vicious ideologies. This kind of argument is the main reason why my country (wich is Sweden) hasn't banned fascist groups.

​It is morally and intellectually wrong to be a white supremacist/Neo-Nazi, etc. In that sense it is a problem. I'm not a liberal nor a free speech absolutist. If they (or communists or whoever) were a big threat, I'd consider banning and repressing them (humanely) legitimate. A constitution or rule of law is not a suicide pact. But I see no need for the government to take such actions against them whilst they are fringe, as long as they obey the law. They're not a major threat in any Western country.
 

 

10/14/2017 6:03 pm  #22


Re: Conservatism and Racism

am93 wrote:

Why are the fbi not classifying far-left groups like antifa as a threat, they are just as problematic as any hate group, they have the same mindset/structure and call for violence to have their motives achieved.

My understanding is that the groups committing the most terrorism in the US are actually green groups/eco-terrorists, though its true they rarely kill anyone.

 

10/14/2017 6:06 pm  #23


Re: Conservatism and Racism

Hmmm before I can evaluate your claims properly, I'd like to ask why you consider Multiculturalism, and mass immigration a failed experiment?

     Thread Starter
 

10/14/2017 6:11 pm  #24


Re: Conservatism and Racism

Because I'm a social and cultural conservative and value settled, rooted communities and cultural cohesion. Even too much rootlessness within a country is a bad thing. Of course, they're far from the only threats.

 

10/14/2017 6:13 pm  #25


Re: Conservatism and Racism

That doesn't really explain to me why mass immigration and multiculturalism are failed. What do you mean specifically?

     Thread Starter
 

10/14/2017 6:17 pm  #26


Re: Conservatism and Racism

Failed may be the wrong word. I didn't think there was anything they could succeed at anyway. A strong, unified, spiritual culture, in today's society, can hardly be multicultural - there can be no unity or shared vision in such a culture and society. Again, though, it is not just mutliculturalism and immigration that is the problem here, much of modern society is problematic, such as globalised corporate-capitalism and much state policy.

 

10/14/2017 6:22 pm  #27


Re: Conservatism and Racism

Why do you think multiculturalism couldn't be a strong unified society?

Last edited by AKG (10/14/2017 6:22 pm)

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10/14/2017 6:29 pm  #28


Re: Conservatism and Racism

Because I take society and culture to require shared values, beliefs, myths, traditions, ways of life, and even rooted, settled communities, etc. And I mean these not in the, shall we say, thin way in which liberals and neo-cons do - that a shared commitment to a few abstract ideas like democracy and belief in the laws of the nation can suffice. I mean them in the thick sense in which a traditional conservative understands them. That sense has a lot in common with the plural cultures that multiculturalism is about. If you understand society and culture in the thin way, it may be possible to think a healthy society can be be balkanized into all sorts of cultures and values and belief systems, or even into atomized individuals, but not if you see it in the thick way. It is no coincidence multiculturalism and secularism go together. 


 

 

10/14/2017 6:43 pm  #29


Re: Conservatism and Racism

So as an example what do you think the opposite of multiculturalism would like in say the US?

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10/14/2017 6:55 pm  #30


Re: Conservatism and Racism

Well, I wouldn't single out problems with multiculturalism from other grave issues, like globalized corporate-capitalism. But, in Britain at least, I support things like restricting immigration. I'm not sure if I support encouraging integration, though its an option. I am split because for me spirituality and traditional religion is of central importance, and our current British culture is modernist, liberal, and secular, to a large degree. I'm somewhat loath to ask Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims, and the like to give up their rich patrimonies for that. They will, to a degree, precisely because multiculturalism tends to lead to a dilution of incoming cultures as well, ironically as it is used as an excuse to further secularise British culture (what is left of the our state support for Anglicanism and Christianity is attacked as not in keeping with our multiple-faith society).

​It isn't really for me to speak for America.

 

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