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9/08/2017 8:18 pm  #1


What do you think if Feser's Five Proofs?

*of

Just wondering what everybody's thoughts are on the book? I've read through every proof and I'm rereading them again. I'm fascinated by the Neo Platonic proof. The Rationalist proof is quite strong. I don't think Feser really addresses, however, the First Cause's reason for creating this specific contingent world as opposed to any other. He seems to argue that something being specific or particular implies that it is contingent (i.e. we need a reason for it being specifically one way as opposed to being some other way). But he doesn't seem to apply this criteria to the First Cause who specifically chooses, loosely speaking, to create this world rather than some other.

Last edited by RomanJoe (9/08/2017 8:19 pm)

 

9/09/2017 5:16 am  #2


Re: What do you think if Feser's Five Proofs?

His expositions of the various arguments are clear and lucid as ever, but the book is of limited appeal to those who have been following his blog (lots of recycled material).

One area I was very disappointed with was his discussion of atheist objections - it would have been nice to have had him tackle at least some of the more intellectual objections from professional atheist philosophers of religion; that he doesn't risks giving the reader the impression that he's just going after strawmen (albeit living breathing strawmen the number of which is legion).

Last edited by DanielCC (9/09/2017 5:17 am)

 

9/09/2017 8:04 am  #3


Re: What do you think if Feser's Five Proofs?

I'm not through with the book yet. I read the intro and a little from the beginning of every chapter and then chose to read the sixth chapter first. So far all I can say is that I like the plan of the book.

RomanJoe wrote:

The Rationalist proof is quite strong. I don't think Feser really addresses, however, the First Cause's reason for creating this specific contingent world as opposed to any other. He seems to argue that something being specific or particular implies that it is contingent (i.e. we need a reason for it being specifically one way as opposed to being some other way). But he doesn't seem to apply this criteria to the First Cause who specifically chooses, loosely speaking, to create this world rather than some other.

The issue might be that Feser is a Christian/Catholic author, so instead of laying out the most consistent philosophy ever, which would be the aim of a consistent philosopher, he keeps in the back of his mind a few dogmas such as how God created the world, that Jesus Christ is the savior etc. Without this, he would not be a Christian/Catholic author.

In contrast, an author who has a looser religious affiliation or none of it, can afford to follow consistently the tenets of his philosophy instead of those of his church or temple or scripture. For example, if ex nihilo nihil fit, then creatio ex nihilo is out of question.

Rationalism would probably most consistently lead to something like deism, not necessarily (classical) theism. Neo-Platonism would be solidly classical theist, but the role of Personal Creator can hardly be attributed to God under that system. Neo-Platonists would more likely hold either emanationist views or they would regard the universe as a marginal side-effect of the activity of the spirit that God is, like panentheism (if I understand that word right), so God has no personalistic direct involvement with the world. These are more like some strands of ancient Gnostic views, not Christian.

Last edited by seigneur (9/09/2017 8:05 am)

 

9/09/2017 8:33 pm  #4


Re: What do you think if Feser's Five Proofs?

@DanielCC

Yeah I was a bit underwhelmed too. I recognized a lot of his content from his blogs and previous books. As for the weak objections, I partially excuse him considering he states in his introduction that he's writing for the casual reader that isn't well acquainted with metaphysics.

     Thread Starter
 

9/09/2017 8:35 pm  #5


Re: What do you think if Feser's Five Proofs?

@seigneur

I think the issue with the Rationalist proof I brought up though has nothing to do with Feser's Catholic background. I think it might just be a flaw in the argument. I'm not totally sure--I've been discussing this problem with Camoden.

     Thread Starter
 

9/10/2017 11:00 pm  #6


Re: What do you think if Feser's Five Proofs?

@DanielCC

To be fair, Feser does address some objections from the more sophisticated philosophers of religion (Atheist and theist alike), say the modal collapse objection against the PSR or Plantinga's and Morris' attacks against Divine Simplicity. 

 

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