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1/07/2018 8:57 am  #61


Re: How to speak with atheists

Update on Adventures with Atheist Parents:

My dad keeps saying that the Church expects people to believe in God blindly, but I’ve told him several times that there are serious arguments given for His existence, and that whether he agrees with them or not, it’s not true that noone has ever given them.

But today, again, he starts talking about religion and says that, you guessed it, the Cruch expects you to believe blindly and that’s how it was when he went to church and it’s why he left. I said that it may be true that, unfortunately, noone at church ever presented them to him, but I said, again, that, if you want to know the best defense of a certain worldview, you should try to figure out what its greatest thinkers have said.

But then he more or less ignored it and went on about how sorry he feels for people being raised in the church.

Is there any getting through to someone like this?

 

1/07/2018 12:27 pm  #62


Re: How to speak with atheists

Dry and Uninspired wrote:

Update on Adventures with Atheist Parents:

My dad keeps saying that the Church expects people to believe in God blindly, but I’ve told him several times that there are serious arguments given for His existence, and that whether he agrees with them or not, it’s not true that noone has ever given them.

But today, again, he starts talking about religion and says that, you guessed it, the Cruch expects you to believe blindly and that’s how it was when he went to church and it’s why he left. I said that it may be true that, unfortunately, noone at church ever presented them to him, but I said, again, that, if you want to know the best defense of a certain worldview, you should try to figure out what its greatest thinkers have said.

But then he more or less ignored it and went on about how sorry he feels for people being raised in the church.

Is there any getting through to someone like this?

I'm not sure if it helps you but what's so great about God? What do we miss in our life here if we forget about God? What's the role of God in our life? I think if you can make the case that we miss the true purpose of our life by ignoring God, then you would not even need to give arguments for his existence.

Last edited by nojoum (1/07/2018 12:32 pm)

 

1/07/2018 4:46 pm  #63


Re: How to speak with atheists

nojoum wrote:

Dry and Uninspired wrote:

Update on Adventures with Atheist Parents:

My dad keeps saying that the Church expects people to believe in God blindly, but I’ve told him several times that there are serious arguments given for His existence, and that whether he agrees with them or not, it’s not true that noone has ever given them.

But today, again, he starts talking about religion and says that, you guessed it, the Cruch expects you to believe blindly and that’s how it was when he went to church and it’s why he left. I said that it may be true that, unfortunately, noone at church ever presented them to him, but I said, again, that, if you want to know the best defense of a certain worldview, you should try to figure out what its greatest thinkers have said.

But then he more or less ignored it and went on about how sorry he feels for people being raised in the church.

Is there any getting through to someone like this?

I'm not sure if it helps you but what's so great about God? What do we miss in our life here if we forget about God? What's the role of God in our life? I think if you can make the case that we miss the true purpose of our life by ignoring God, then you would not even need to give arguments for his existence.

 
If I go in a direction sort of like that, then the problem of evil generally comes up. And he says that, even if God exists, he’d rather go to Hell than worship someone who allows all this suffering, and that nothing could convince him that a good God could allow it.

Last edited by Dry and Uninspired (1/07/2018 4:46 pm)

 

1/07/2018 7:28 pm  #64


Re: How to speak with atheists

Dry and Uninspired wrote:

nojoum wrote:

Dry and Uninspired wrote:

Update on Adventures with Atheist Parents:

My dad keeps saying that the Church expects people to believe in God blindly, but I’ve told him several times that there are serious arguments given for His existence, and that whether he agrees with them or not, it’s not true that noone has ever given them.

But today, again, he starts talking about religion and says that, you guessed it, the Cruch expects you to believe blindly and that’s how it was when he went to church and it’s why he left. I said that it may be true that, unfortunately, noone at church ever presented them to him, but I said, again, that, if you want to know the best defense of a certain worldview, you should try to figure out what its greatest thinkers have said.

But then he more or less ignored it and went on about how sorry he feels for people being raised in the church.

Is there any getting through to someone like this?

I'm not sure if it helps you but what's so great about God? What do we miss in our life here if we forget about God? What's the role of God in our life? I think if you can make the case that we miss the true purpose of our life by ignoring God, then you would not even need to give arguments for his existence.

 
If I go in a direction sort of like that, then the problem of evil generally comes up. And he says that, even if God exists, he’d rather go to Hell than worship someone who allows all this suffering, and that nothing could convince him that a good God could allow it.

 
Be careful not to seem too pushy with all this stuff. It takes time, too. With regards to "what's so grreat about God", maybe you could get him to think of our natural desire for infinite and perfect good. We have this deep desire within ourselves, a desire for ultimate being, for perfect and infinite good. Norris Clarke explains it beautifully in his "The One and the Many" when he discusses the "internal path" to God.

 

1/08/2018 12:48 pm  #65


Re: How to speak with atheists

Miguel wrote:

.... 
Be careful not to seem too pushy with all this stuff. It takes time, too. With regards to "what's so grreat about God", maybe you could get him to think of our natural desire for infinite and perfect good. We have this deep desire within ourselves, a desire for ultimate being, for perfect and infinite good. Norris Clarke explains it beautifully in his "The One and the Many" when he discusses the "internal path" to God.

Sounds like a book I need...
I just went to Amazon and the book is temp out of stock.  The paperback is listed at $35!

     Thread Starter
 

1/09/2018 6:27 pm  #66


Re: How to speak with atheists

Might I suggest persons like this are too quick to equate God with what they see as the character in the Bibble?

God is by definition the supreme good, the perfect being et cetera et cetera, so saying ‘what’s so good about God’ or ‘God is bad’ doesn’t make sense - it is equivalent to saying ‘good is bad’. Likewise for actions this person considers wrong - if they are wrong then God could not command them, simple as that.

 

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