Classical Theism, Philosophy, and Religion Forum / You people don't worship G-d. You worship "western civilization."

**Posted by 119** 11/13/2018 9:10 am

The demographics suggest a different religion flourishing there, and I want to wish our Taoist brothers & sisters all the best.

**Posted by John West** 11/13/2018 9:12 pm

119 wrote:
The demographics suggest a different religion flourishing there, and I want to wish our Taoist brothers & sisters all the best.

That is a very dry piece of humour.
What about the US? Do you really see dear old uncle Billy Bob yelling mazel tov one day?

**Posted by 119** 11/14/2018 10:09 am

Your Taoist-phobia chills my blood. It's a beautiful, rich tradition, and Europe won't survive without this precious diversity. I love the yin-yang symbol. It makes me think of Grateful Dead concerts.

There are Noachide "congregations" in the US. TeNaK Talk is out of Texas. How fast could it spread? Rodney Stark maintains that it's not theology that propels a religious system; it's sociological factors. This is counterintuitive to those of us who frequent philosophy forums. We're in the Turing machine wing of the building and we project our approach to others: it's all about philosophy & theology. Who would change his affiliation for any other reason? Most folks, it seems.

The South is the one place that treats the Bible seriously, as the literal Word of G-d. They'd actually be more likely than any other place to go Noachide.

Last edited by 119 (11/14/2018 12:10 pm)

**Posted by John West** 11/15/2018 12:07 am

119 wrote:
The South is the one place that treats the Bible seriously, as the literal Word of G-d. They'd actually be more likely than any other place to go Noachide.

Alas, I suspect that says more about how unlikely the world is to go Noahide than how likely the South is to.

This is counterintuitive to those of us who frequent philosophy forums. We're in the Turing machine wing of the building and we project our approach to others: it's all about philosophy & theology. Who would change his affiliation for any other reason? Most folks, it seems.

Nietzsche would have agreed. He thought that by the time one got to giving arguments one had already basically lost their listeners. Aquinas might have disagreed. (I used to think: How could anyone who actually goes outside think that people are fundamentally rational and can be convinced by complex philosophical arguments? Now, I'm not so sure. I've gradually shifted my position over the last year.)

**Posted by 119** 11/15/2018 12:32 pm

John West wrote:
I used to think: How could anyone who actually goes outside think that people are fundamentally rational and can be convinced by complex philosophical arguments? Now, I'm not so sure. I've gradually shifted my position over the last year.

That's a MAJOR switch! To what do you attribute this? My faith in the fundamental reasonableness of humanity is just that: faith. (They're created in G-d's image. Rationality is a potentiality than can be actualized under the right circumstances. Unfortunately the counter-evidence could fill the Grand Canyon.)

It's more complicated than this, even. Some very intelligent people don't/can't apply their smarts to these issues. I have Mensa-tier friends whose eyes glaze over at talk of modal collapse, Leibniz vs. Kalaam, the efficacy of the Neo-Platonic argument, how to steel-man the Kuzari, etc. They can't believe anyone worries about such things. It almost feels like a form of gas-lighting!

**Posted by John West** 11/16/2018 1:26 am

119 wrote:
That's a MAJOR switch! To what do you attribute this?

Skepticism tends to lead to great upheavals in one's views. I've rejected or changed a lot of beliefs over the last two years. (If I had been a theist, people here would not be happy about this; but since I was a naturalist, they usually are.)

**Posted by 119** 11/16/2018 1:42 pm

Relevant to the thread: Jacob's Ladder in this week's Torah portion (Vayeitzei) is face-melting.

Not to be confused with the Rush song.

"You can take 'western civilization.' I'll take A-mighty G-d."

**Posted by BrandonWheep** 12/20/2020 1:18 am

I most definitely am a Christian and proud of it I would like to hear from some others that say they arent. What or who if anybody do they worship and why? Oh goodness Isaac youve opened a can of worms

**Posted by Justinrhymn** 1/10/2021 4:41 pm

I hate these things. I'd rather read.

Mao killed around 60 to 80 million people in the last century in his crusade of state-worship. Can you demonstrate that theists killed more than that?