Classical Theism, Philosophy, and Religion Forum / Classical Theism-Rome

**Posted by AKG** 4/26/2016 7:19 am

Does anyone know about any Roman philosophers who impacted or were a part of the classical theistic tradition. If so is there any link to their works that could be used?

**Posted by Etzelnik** 4/26/2016 7:57 am

AKG wrote:
Does anyone know about any Roman philosophers who impacted or were a part of the classical theistic tradition. If so is there any link to their works that could be used?

The Roman Stoics were pretty close. You can easily find a PDF of Cicero's De Natura Deorum.

**Posted by AKG** 4/26/2016 8:09 am

Was Cicero really a classical theist? Didn't he believe in polytheism? I also heard that near the end of his life he embraced the Epicurean form of life, though I'm not to sure of this.

**Posted by iwpoe** 4/26/2016 8:13 am

Boethius, from whom my avatar is adopted, is the greatest case. For the most part the early Latins are shitty philosophers- dull derivative and conventional thinkers -but Boethius is a great exception.

**Posted by Etzelnik** 4/26/2016 8:32 am

AKG wrote:
Was Cicero really a classical theist? Didn't he believe in polytheism?

No more than Plato did.

I also heard that near the end of his life he embraced the Epicurean form of life, though I'm not to sure of this.

If by that you mean 'vain and given to luxury' then he is guilty as charged. He was a man of weak character and shifting loyalties, nothing like his ally, Cato. However, his works reveal a better side to him.

**Posted by AKG** 4/26/2016 8:37 am

Did Cicero like Plato believe in some sort of Supreme God like the Form of the good?

**Posted by Etzelnik** 4/26/2016 8:39 am

AKG wrote:
Did Cicero like Plato believe in some sort of Supreme God like the Form of the good?

Yes.

**Posted by AKG** 4/26/2016 8:53 am

Really? Does he discuss this in De Natura Deorum, and have a special name for it or did he just call it God?

**Posted by iwpoe** 4/26/2016 10:27 am

Many superficially polytheist pagans, were monotheists in the sense that they ultimately believed there was one supreme ground of reality. The reason that Christianity could be so successful in the Greco-Roman world was because all it did was recognize this situation and articulate it straightforwardly. The supreme authority of all reality simply becomes God as such, the role that the gods and heroes played in previous thinking gets taken over by angels and saints, and this makes everything a lot more clear hierarchically.

The only pagans in the Greco-Roman world I know to be very different in outlook are Homer himself and Heraclitus. Homer's picture of reality really seems to be the rising up and falling down of myriad forces from no particular source at all. The foundation of things does really seem to be fundamentally plural for Homer.

We should be careful reading backwards anachronistic thought into the past. The Greco-Roman world, and especially the Roman world, had a good sense for hierarchy. We moderns do not.

Last edited by iwpoe (4/26/2016 10:30 am)

**Posted by Brian** 4/30/2016 8:38 am

iwpoe wrote:
Many superficially polytheist pagans, were monotheists in the sense that they ultimately believed there was one supreme ground of reality. The reason that Christianity could be so successful in the Greco-Roman world was because all it did was recognize this situation and articulate it straightforwardly. The supreme authority of all reality simply becomes God as such, the role that the gods and heroes played in previous thinking gets taken over by angels and saints, and this makes everything a lot more clear hierarchically.

The only pagans in the Greco-Roman world I know to be very different in outlook are Homer himself and Heraclitus. Homer's picture of reality really seems to be the rising up and falling down of myriad forces from no particular source at all. The foundation of things does really seem to be fundamentally plural for Homer.

We should be careful reading backwards anachronistic thought into the past. The Greco-Roman world, and especially the Roman world, had a good sense for hierarchy. We moderns do not.

@Iwpoe,

Are you familiar with any of the later Platonic readings of Homer, in which they view him as some sort of secret metaphysical, teaching the nature of the world through epic poetry? If so, what fo you think of that endeavor? I recall Plutarch and Porphyry both gaving bits about this, and I am sure others do as well.