Classical Theism, Philosophy, and Religion Forum / The Four Fundamental Forces

**Posted by joewaked** 5/06/2017 12:07 pm

As I have walked thru the argument from cause, i.e., every effect has a cause apart from itself, my interlocutor brings up the fundamental forces (gravity, electromagnetic, strong & weak). He argues that, at least, 2 of those forces are "internal" to the atom and not something apart from it; perhaps even all 4 forces are internal to the tiniest particle of matter. If true, and I haven't conceded that yet, does that change anything in the cause-and-effect argument or in the argument from motion -- that we have an effect coming from a cause within? Or do we ask "what caused the 4 forces"?

**Posted by joewaked** 5/07/2017 2:39 pm

That's on me then. As I understood, causes must be from without.

Alexander, if I said to you that the strong force (cause), which keeps protons and neutrons together (effect) in the nucleus of the atom, is "from within" the atom itself. You would respond, "So what? The EFFECT of the protons & neutrons staying together is CAUSED by the strong force. They are not kept together by themselves. So the next question you can ask is ''WHAT is causing the strong force?'"

Is that essentially correct?

Last edited by joewaked (5/07/2017 5:46 pm)

**Posted by joewaked** 5/08/2017 10:55 am

Thank you for the detailed explanation! Especially the analogy with the free will - very helpful.

I've been trying to read up on massless particles, such as gluons. Really difficult to wrap my head around. If such things like gluons (or light waves I suppose) are immaterial, does that have any impact on our A-T metaphysics?