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8/19/2015 6:25 pm  #1


Islamic resources

This may test some people's tolerance, but Islam happens to have its own very solid classical theist tradition too. For example, the famous Evangelical debater William Lane Craig has a fine history of encounters with Muslim debaters, and Muslims come across as more consistently monotheistic.

The best classical theist authority within Islam is Al-Ghazali, both as a starting point and as a subject of advanced study. He is not just a name among others, but a truly gigantic practical scholar who adequately systematised the entire Western and Islamic philosophical thought that had preceded him. On top of this, his own insights are veritable revelations that opened new paths in both philosophy and theology of Islam. As a theologian, he argued for the normalisation of the Sufi movement on both philosophical and scriptural grounds. 

A good grasp of the style and method of Al-Ghazali is provided by The Just Balance, a brief overview of the aspects of the syllogistic reasoning.

And here's an article by Aaron Hughes on what Al-Ghazali had to say about the relationships of mental world and the physical world http://www.ghazali.org/articles/hughes.pdf

For example,

Aaron Hughes wrote:

Against the philosophers, Ghazali claims that the imaginative faculty is both primary and superior to the rational faculty because it is responsible for the creation of images (muthul, sing. mithâl) that enable the embodied individual to perceive the imperceptible and to express the inexpressible. [...]

A world cannot exist without its display or without meaningful articulations. In the world of Neoplatonism—the ontological system to which Ghazali subscribed—these articulations occur within an emanative framework, wherein images issue ontically from a nonmaterial source. Within this framework sense phenomena are necessary conditions for our knowledge of both the transcendence of the world and what is transcendent to the world. From the embodied human perspective, Neoplatonic articulations are layered in such a manner that the higher are founded on the lower and in such a way that this foundation can always be brought to light.

 

8/19/2015 9:50 pm  #2


Re: Islamic resources

Since people were given the green light to post individual Scholastic threads and a Maimonides thread, there's a good case for an Islamic Resources thread. Islam also has a very old classical theist tradition. Don't worry about any controversy.

Last edited by John West (8/19/2015 9:59 pm)

 

9/01/2015 10:29 am  #3


Re: Islamic resources

Yeah, good thread as I'm a Muslim.

 

11/05/2015 1:57 am  #4


Re: Islamic resources

I Disagree that Christians , Jews . and Muslims SHARE the Same God.

 1...  The Bible Completely Disagrees with the god of ISLAM. and its Quran. 
2...   The God of Christians and Jews, MADE Man in His Own Image and Likeness and Has Sons and Daughters. - The God of Islam / Did not make Man in His Own image. 
3...  The God of Christians and Jews * in The Content and Descriptions of the Bible--- God - / has Declared the God of Islam To be a Fraud, Lie and Not truth. 
4. The God of Christians and Jews has stepped into His OWN Creation and Manifested HIMSELF as a CREATED being. From the Old Testament, God is Walking and Talking in the Garden with Adam. To the New Testament God is Morphed Himself as the Christ. the Lord Yahshua, JESUS. Who Claims to be ( LITTERALY ) the FATHER. The image of the Invisible God. 
And 5. The Quran and the God of ISLAM - Has NOTHING before the 7 th Century, In the Way of Supporting Scriptures, that verify its Claim - that All the prophets and Messengers before Mohammud = WERE MUSLIMS and taught Islam.

You see  -  The God of the BIBLE.... Proved by a RECORDED Line of EVIDENCE and preserved Scriptures. THE God of the Bible and the God of ISLAM are not the Same.   Acording to one the other -  One is a LIAR or declaring the other as a liar...   ! 

I always ask Muslims and Catholics  -  Why is it that Islam  -  before the 7th CENTURY  -  has - no preserved record, No BIBLES, No Gospels, No preserved books,  No Historic Maps,  No geographic records,  no CHRONICLES -  NO ARTIFACTS of any Muslims eXisting.   The Quran Claims that  Prophets Came to the earth before the  7 th  century and Islamic propheTs  delivered  Islamic scripTures  and ISLAMIC GOSPELS - to all  Languages and all Civilizations around the earth.Where ARE  the  Muslims scripTures  before the  7th CENTURY. 

The Torah and Gospels were only send in Hebrew and Greek.  and yet they are translated to every nation on the earth.  But islam that was sent to every single nation of the earth and at the Time of Mohammud, Mohammud is claiming that he is the first Muslim because there are no other Muslims or Islamic teachings on earth.     .  it seems that Islam has everything backwards.

"And for every nation there is a messenger." (10:47)    "And there is not a people but a warner has gone among them." (35:24)    Then Why is it that Islam  -  before the 7th CENTURY  has -NO Genealogies of anyone.There is no History or evidence that the god of Islam eXisted before Mohammud.   When there should be allot of Evidence.  But there is nothing, anywhere.
 

Last edited by theway (11/05/2015 2:03 am)


Thank You for having me.
 

11/05/2015 2:48 am  #5


Re: Islamic resources

theway wrote:

I Disagree that Christians , Jews . and Muslims SHARE the Same God.

 1...  The Bible Completely Disagrees with the god of ISLAM. and its Quran. 
2...   The God of Christians and Jews, MADE Man in His Own Image and Likeness and Has Sons and Daughters. - The God of Islam / Did not make Man in His Own image. 
3...  The God of Christians and Jews * in The Content and Descriptions of the Bible--- God - / has Declared the God of Islam To be a Fraud, Lie and Not truth. 
4. The God of Christians and Jews has stepped into His OWN Creation and Manifested HIMSELF as a CREATED being. From the Old Testament, God is Walking and Talking in the Garden with Adam. To the New Testament God is Morphed Himself as the Christ. the Lord Yahshua, JESUS. Who Claims to be ( LITTERALY ) the FATHER. The image of the Invisible God. 
And 5. The Quran and the God of ISLAM - Has NOTHING before the 7 th Century, In the Way of Supporting Scriptures, that verify its Claim - that All the prophets and Messengers before Mohammud = WERE MUSLIMS and taught Islam.

You see  -  The God of the BIBLE.... Proved by a RECORDED Line of EVIDENCE and preserved Scriptures. THE God of the Bible and the God of ISLAM are not the Same.   Acording to one the other -  One is a LIAR or declaring the other as a liar...   ! 

I always ask Muslims and Catholics  -  Why is it that Islam  -  before the 7th CENTURY  -  has - no preserved record, No BIBLES, No Gospels, No preserved books,  No Historic Maps,  No geographic records,  no CHRONICLES -  NO ARTIFACTS of any Muslims eXisting.   The Quran Claims that  Prophets Came to the earth before the  7 th  century and Islamic propheTs  delivered  Islamic scripTures  and ISLAMIC GOSPELS - to all  Languages and all Civilizations around the earth.Where ARE  the  Muslims scripTures  before the  7th CENTURY. 

The Torah and Gospels were only send in Hebrew and Greek.  and yet they are translated to every nation on the earth.  But islam that was sent to every single nation of the earth and at the Time of Mohammud, Mohammud is claiming that he is the first Muslim because there are no other Muslims or Islamic teachings on earth.     .  it seems that Islam has everything backwards.

"And for every nation there is a messenger." (10:47)    "And there is not a people but a warner has gone among them." (35:24)    Then Why is it that Islam  -  before the 7th CENTURY  has -NO Genealogies of anyone.There is no History or evidence that the god of Islam eXisted before Mohammud.   When there should be allot of Evidence.  But there is nothing, anywhere.
 

If your point is "Christianity and Islam cannot both be entirely true", then you are obviously correct, but no one will be surprised. If your point is "Christianity and Islam do not believe all the same things about God", again you are correct. If your point is "Christianity and Islam do not have even classical theism in common" (and classical theism is, after all, the subject of these forums), you are fairly blatantly wrong.
And if you seriously think you can refute Islam's truth claims in the space of a comment on a forum, you don't even pass the laugh test.

 

11/05/2015 6:17 am  #6


Re: Islamic resources

Let's be good Scholastics and bring in some distinctions here:

Basic Theism: The basic claims of Theism as derived from the principle of Perfect Being Theology. God necessarily has the properties of being Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnibenevolent (this later ought to be phrased differently though) and is a necessary being.
 
Representatives: Virtually every theist up until the 19th century and most theists today  
 
Classical Theism: Add to the above the additional claims that God is simple (Divine Simplicity) and that God is the ground of all universal truths.
 
Representatives: Virtually every theist up until the 19th century
 
Scholium:
 
There is an additional claim to the effect that God is Subsistent Existence. This arguable follows from Divine Simplicity but is not identical to it. Representatives of this view include Thomas and Mulla Sadra
 
Altered Theism: Basic Theism albeit with God lacking one or two of the Great Making Properties outlined. This typically is not seen as due to a limitation on God but the impossibility of one of the Divine Attributes as traditionally conceived e.g. if propositions concerning the future do not have a determinate truth-value then they cannot be known and thus requiring God to be able to do so would be to request a pseudo-task akin to creating a Square-Circle.

Representatives: Nelson Pike, Peter Geach, Gale when in theistic moods and some Process Theists.
 
Abnormal Theism: Theism that claims God is not a necessary being and/or that God lacks one of the Great Making properties as traditionally conceived despite its being possible.
 
Representatives: Mormonism, J.S. Mill, Richard Swinburne, John Hick, Keith Yendal and when we get right down to it probably David Hume.

Doctrinal Attribute Claims:
 
Trinitarianism: God is necessary three persons  
 
Accepted by orthodox Christians of all denominations. Rejected by Unitarians, Jews, Muslims and all non-Abrahamic theists.

On the basis of the last claim ‘the God of’ Christianity and ‘the God of’ Islam are necessarily different, however this difference also cuts across all other forms of theism. Also: being a proposition which the Church has for a long time claimed to be inaccessible to reason alone, there is little to be gained from us philosophers qua philosophers discussing it. In terms of ‘natural attributes’ and categorisation Islamic thinkers nearly all fall into class one, ‘basic’ Perfect Being Theism and most of them all into class two, Classical Theism.
 

Last edited by DanielCC (11/05/2015 6:18 am)

 

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