Classical Theism, Philosophy, and Religion Forum

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6/29/2016 11:24 am  #1


Classical Theism Eastern Philosophy

With regards to Eastern philosphy(Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, etc) what does anyone think about it's relationship to classical theism? I've been doing some research, and it seems to me they actually have a lot in common with classical theism(especially the works of Plotinus) as they affirm that the fundamental principle of reality cannot just be an existing thing, but beyond existence, only known through what it is not, while also being transcendent, and immanent to the world at the same time. Has anyone else looked into the similarities between classical theism and Eastern philosophy?

 

11/02/2016 10:44 am  #2


Re: Classical Theism Eastern Philosophy

Having studied Advaita Vedanta first I had no idea that there had been anything remotely similar in the West, until I was led to - by Vedanta writers such as Swami Krishnananda - to Plotinus.

Christianity tries to lay some claim to classical theism, but it doesn't look quite doable. Philosophically, yes, scripturally, no. Islam is in a better position.

 

11/02/2016 3:18 pm  #3


Re: Classical Theism Eastern Philosophy

I certainly agree they have a lot in common with classical theism. They certainly have more in common with it than any of these schools of thought have to do with much modern thought. It is probably the Aristotelian school that has least in common with much Eastern thought (although it must be remembered Indian thought is made up of far more than non-dualists - there are qualified non-dualist and followers of philosophies closer to mainstream Western theism). But Platonism, Sufism, Palamism, the schools of Suhrawardi and Mulla Sudra, for example, seem to have much in common with a lot of Eastern thought. Of course, there are many distinctions to be made, so I'm talking impossibly loosely.

 

11/02/2016 3:57 pm  #4


Re: Classical Theism Eastern Philosophy

I explored Zen and Chan (as well as Buddhism more generally) and I tend to think that it is ultimately antithetical to classical philosophy more generally and to classical theism in particular. The only ancient school there's any immediate resemblance to is ancient skepticism, though zen very thoroughly masks the theoretical background in favor of practical and poetical teaching (consider the koan and how different that is even from the storytelling form of the platonic dialogue).

It's possible to think Buddhism kind of agnostic about theoretical truth and to be mainly a set of practical and rhetorical exercises for certain spiritual effects, in which case it could be considered perfectly compatible with classical theism much as Christian mysticism or the practice of various spiritual disciplines such as the Rosary  exercise of the Stations of the Cross or monasticism could be so considered. Though in that case I would look for a bridge such as somebody like Thomas Merton or others who found spiritual value in eastern thought and not simply take it directly from the texts.


Fighting to the death "the noonday demon" of Acedia.
My Books
It is precisely “values” that are the powerless and threadbare mask of the objectification of beings, an objectification that has become flat and devoid of background. No one dies for mere values.
~Martin Heidegger
 

11/02/2016 4:48 pm  #5


Re: Classical Theism Eastern Philosophy

In general, Eastern thought is not philosophy in the modern sense, but then neither is most pre-modern Western thought. With the exception of some Hellenistic schools, it is Scholasticism, especially in its later forms, that bears the least resemble to most Eastern thought, of all pre-modern Western schools. Buddhism is simply one of the most extreme examples of divergence. Buddhism is radically apophatic. Its philosophy is designed, ultimately, to break the hold of discursive reason and categories, and illuminate the intellectual intuition - Bodhi ​(बोधि). But even someone like Shankara is not involved in the same entreprise as a Bertrand Russell or, to some degree, even an Ockham or Duns Scotus. Though there is some resemble between Buddhism and ancient scepticism, Buddhism ultimately has a spiritual and intellectual purpose that seems missing from the what we know of the latter. The spiritual beliefs of Buddhism shouldn't simply be equated with any other position, but they bear resemblance to Platonism (I mean the Platonism of Plotinus and Proclus, not any definition used in modern philosophy) and forms of Christian and Islamic mysticism. Nirvana (although Buddhists are often loath to make positive statements, we as non-Buddhists can ignore that for our present purposes) is the absolute - as well as bliss, knowledge, permanance - and in much Mahayana thought holds a position similar to the non-dual thought of a Shankara or Plotinus (Samsara is Nirvana, as the saying goes). 

 

11/03/2016 3:42 pm  #6


Re: Classical Theism Eastern Philosophy

The core agon between γνῶσις and बोधि is its place in relation to knowing generally. Γνῶσις is understood as the foundation of all discursive knowing and to not be in ultimate conflict with it. बोधि, certainly in Zen anyway, comes to be understood as showing the futility and illusory character of both theoretical and practical knowledge. This could be thought a microcosm of the entire difference between the positions.


Fighting to the death "the noonday demon" of Acedia.
My Books
It is precisely “values” that are the powerless and threadbare mask of the objectification of beings, an objectification that has become flat and devoid of background. No one dies for mere values.
~Martin Heidegger
 

11/03/2016 6:56 pm  #7


Re: Classical Theism Eastern Philosophy

I don't think that is correct. Buddhism, especially Mahayana, makes extensive use of its own forms of logic and taxonomy of the elements of reality. This is held to be incomplete, but not illusionary. Buddhist logic is used to break the hold of discursive thought, but it does hsve it own role to play - to a degree it is held as important knowledge about reality.

 

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