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Theoretical Philosophy » Problems for Presentism » 9/21/2015 8:41 pm

Mark
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Scott wrote:

Eternalism (of any sort) has no more trouble explaining why I don't "experience all points of my reality simultaneously since all are equally real" than it has explaining why two different spatial locations don't collapse into one just because they're equally real.


That’s a good point, but I’m not sure it’s fully analogous. Objects do not occupy different spatial point simultaneously, but Eternalism holds that people (and everything else) can exist simultaneously at different points in time. It’s the simultaneity I’m worried about.  

John West wrote:

Unfortunately, you still haven't dropped the idea that I'm talking about giving an epistemic account of our experience of the present. It's baldly presupposed in every paragraph in your reply except the last. I don't think we can make any progress until that part is corrected


I thought I was arguing that, not presupposing it. This hasn’t made for a productive discussion. So let’s try this another way: On any alternative view to presentism you care to defend, what is the present, and how does that differ from presentism?

John West wrote:

This can be rephrased: "If God arbitrarily selects a unit of time, is that arbitrary?" But God wouldn't arbitrarily select a unit of time in the first place. So, what you've done here is presupposed that it's a non-arbitrary "moment", and smuggled it in without supporting reasons.


 [color=black]You like accusing me of presupposing things. It’s not a very charitable way of interpretation. I was making no assertions at all in that question, as far as I can tell. If I had, Dennis would be quite right that “This would, at least to me, be a very weird way to argue as to why Planck time is the measure of the present.” At any rate, what I meant to question was whether or

Theoretical Philosophy » Problems for Presentism » 9/17/2015 11:40 am

Mark
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John West wrote:

I hate to be pedantic about this first part, but for the presentist there are no claims about the qualities of the past and future, the past and future simply don't exist….
I'm not sure why you think some of the other stuff. Eternalism in particular just says that time is a big, continuous quantity from the beginning of time, to its end. 

We study time in a metaphysical way and also in a way linked to our perspective. From our perspective, (which is where our intuitions tend to arise from), there is a difference between past, present, and future: namely, that we have experienced, are experiencing, and have yet to experience them each respectively. So when I said that “everyone agrees that the present has exactly the same qualities; where they differ is the qualities of the past and future” I of course didn’t mean that the Presentist holds that the past and future have different qualities metaphysically (since they’re not existent) but that they have different qualities relative to our perspective. It seems pretty uncontroversial that the quality of our experience of the past and future is different from that of the present.

You’re suggesting that there’s something difficult with defining what counts as the present metaphysically. Either we pick an arbitrary measurement of time to count as the present, or we say time is discrete (neither of which is desirable). Either way, the issue is coming up with a good metaphysical account which accords with our experiential account. The Eternalist  agrees with the Presentist that we have the experience of the present, even if he denies that metaphysically the present differs in reality from the other tenses. But if that’s the case, why is Presentism in any worse position than Eternalism with regards to how it defines the present? If there’s no non-arbitrary or counter intuitive way to understand our experience of the present, why should that tell only against Presentism? You seem to

Theoretical Philosophy » Problems for Presentism » 9/16/2015 11:24 am

Mark
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John West wrote:

Hi Mark,
The point was that it's arbitrary to select anything but the smallest possible unit of time as the part that exists on presentism. Since continuous quantities are infinitely divisible, admitting a smallest possible unit of time would entail that time is not continuous, but discrete. It wasn't an epistemological question; clearly I know that a moment isn't a day, or a week, or even a year.

Also, doesn’t the objection work against B theorists and growing-block theory as well?

No, because neither the growing block nor the block are committed to only a present moment existing, and the objection turns on that fact..

I must misunderstand the objection? Everyone agrees that the present exists, and everyone agrees that the present has exactly the same qualities; where they differ is the qualities of the past and future. You're issue is that to define the present we either have to pick anarbitrary length of time or say time is discrete. Arbitrariness is bad, discreteness is unintuitive... so what follows? You seem to want to say that it shows the present is not unique in its reality. It seems though that the conclusion should rather be that the present isn't a legitimate tense.If we can't make sense of the present in the terms you've requested, then we should remove it from our langauge (is how I take the argument). If that arguement works, then that's a problem for everybody. It might seem at first glance to be a much bigger problem for the presentist because he has much more riding on the present than everyone else, but I'm actually unconvinced. If the present isn't a legitimate tense, then we would have difficulty saying what the past and future are (since they are both relative to now). That seems to cause non-presentists views to make even less sense of every human's presentist perspective.

Theoretical Philosophy » Problems for Presentism » 9/15/2015 8:30 pm

Mark
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John West wrote:

You've confused truthmaking with reference in this paragraph. For instance, the truthbearing statement "There are no unicorns" is made true by the totality of horse-like animals, none of which have horns. Craig argues against Quine's use of reference in first-order predicate logic for making ontological commitments, not against truthmaking.

Er, I don’t know anything about Craig on Quine, but I am indeed talking about truth makers not referents. Originally writing on counter-factual knowledge, he touches on this subject writing:
 
 

William Lane Craig wrote:

“[Certain] abstract entities do not stand in causal relations. This invalidates at a single swoop the crude construal of the grounding objection expressed in Robert Adam’s demand ‘Who or what does cause them [counterfactuals of creaturely freedom] to be true?’ The question is inept because the relation between a proposition and its truth-maker is not a causal relation…. [Past tense statements] about persons who no longer or do not yet exist and so cannot have such persons among their truth-makers… reveal just how naïve an understanding grounding objector have to the notion of truth-makers. For if these statements have truth-makers, their truth-makers are not physical objects out there in the world but are abstract entities like state of affairs or fact.”

(Sorry it’s a little chopped up. I wanted to avoid a mass of text. The full text is in Divine Knowledge: Four Views)
 

John West wrote:

It's not an epistemological objection. It follows from the definition of presentism that the presentist is committed to a present moment that exists, and that the past and future do not. That's an ontological point.

You’re definitely right that that part of the objection is ontological. But your question was about different measurements of ‘now’, saying “ How do we choose one over the other?” which strikes me as a question about how

Theoretical Philosophy » Problems for Presentism » 9/15/2015 11:36 am

Mark
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John West wrote:

"The now that passes produces time, 
the now that remains produces eternity."

Boethius. The Consolation of Philosophy.


I think presentism has more problems than people typically realize.

For one, it seems unable to account for past tense truthmakers. It at least seems that more than one possible past could have led to the present state of the world. An explosion, for example, could have been caused by a lightning strike, or by a chemical leakage, or by an electrical short-circuit, or any number of other ways. If it's possible that more than one past could have led to the present state of the world, then the totality of present states-of-affairs cannot serve as truthmakers for a determinate past. Hence, the totality of the present state-of-affairs cannot serve as truthmakers for a determinate past.

And what would the duration of “now” be for presentists? Is the present moment a second? Is it a year? Is it an hour? How do we choose one over the other? Is it “Now in the Year of the Lord 2015”, or “Now while I rest”? “Now in the 21st century”, or “Now, now, very now, an old black ram is tupping your white ewe”?[1] How long is “now”? It seems presentists' only non-arbitrary option is to admit a smallest possible unit of time. If, however, time is continuous, then there is no smallest possible unit of time. Hence, admitting a smallest possible unit of time would commit presentists to the view that time is discrete.

But we don't experience time as discrete—everything seems to flow smoothly—and, I think, this should be an embarrassment for a view that prides itself on upholding our common sense intuitions.

Alternatives to presentism are the growing block theory, which preserves our experience of ongoing change, and eternalism, which helps with McTaggart's argument and the problem of God and future contingents.[2] Either alternative avoids both the above arguments.

 
I know of

Theoretical Philosophy » God and time » 9/03/2015 11:33 am

Mark
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lawrence89 wrote:

Thanks for your answer. Probably I'm a bit confused. I was thinking that if God is Timelessness, then we had to be eternalists. But you say we could also be presentist. So I'm asking: given that God is Timelessness, doesn't it mean that He "sees" our past and future events together? And in that case, doesn't it mean that presentism is false?

Depends on your theory of truth. Presentists who want to affirm the eternality of God might say that while it is true that only the present exists, God has such intimate knowledge of both the past and future that he "sees" them as equally well and with equal immediacy as he does the present. What he has done and will do was ordained before the creation of the world,so that his relation to the present is the same as it is to any other time.
 

Religion » Trinitarian Question » 9/02/2015 12:12 pm

Mark
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I was musing with a friend the other day about the following question: If Christians believe that the Son is eternally begotton by the Father, does that mean that the Father is logically prior to the Son? It seems on Augustine's analogy of God as the sun and the Son as its rays, then this kind of priority exists, which would make God the Son a dependent being. (Of course, being logically prior is unrelated to being temporally prior, so their co-eternalness could still be affirmed.)

Thoughts?

Theoretical Philosophy » Two Questions: Sin as Irrationality and the Soul as Body's Form » 9/02/2015 11:16 am

Mark
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OK, hold up, I just read an old post of Feser's and now I'm confused again. He wrote in a post on human genesis that this is his preferred theory: 

Ed Feser wrote:

The Flynn-Kemp proposal is this.  Suppose evolutionary processes gave rise to a population of several thousand creatures of this non-rational but genetically and physiologically “human” sort.  Suppose further that God infused rational souls into two of these creatures, thereby giving them our distinctive intellectual and volitional powers and making them truly human.  Call this pair “Adam” and “Eve.”  Adam and Eve have descendents, and God infuses into each of them rational souls of their own, so that they too are human in the strict metaphysical sense.  Suppose that some of these descendents interbreed with creatures of the non-rational but genetically and physiologically “human” sort.  The offspring that result would also have rational souls since they have Adam and Eve as ancestors (even if they also have non-rational creatures as ancestors).  This interbreeding carries on for some time, but eventually the population of non-rational but genetically and physiologically “human” creatures dies out, leaving only those creatures who are human in the strict metaphysical sense.  On this scenario, the modern human population has the genes it does because it is descended from this group of several thousand individuals, initially only two of whom had rational or human souls.  But only those later individuals who had this pair among their ancestors (even if they also had as ancestors members of the original group which did not have human souls) have descendents living today.  In that sense, every modern human is both descended from an original population of several thousand and from an original pair.  There is no contradiction, because the claim that modern humans are descended from an original pair does not entail that they received all their genes from that pa

Theoretical Philosophy » Two Questions: Sin as Irrationality and the Soul as Body's Form » 8/24/2015 7:40 pm

Mark
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Scott wrote:

whether any particular supposed "animal" really is sentient is an empirical question; what looks like a "dog," for example, might turn out to be a cleverly programmed robot that isn't sentient at all. But generally, "how we know" is that we infer animals' sentience from their behavior.

It would seem then that the Thomist has no better reason for believing animals are sentient than the substance dualist? If philosophical zombies are possible, the inference from animal behavior seems tenuous. Feser denies their possibility in humans; does he have an argument against it in animals?
 
.
 

Scott wrote:

Those are two different issues as well. A dog has the substantial form of a dog, period. That's true whether or not dogs are sentient. If tomorrow we discovered that a dog was actually a variety of cabbage, we'd have discovered that dogs aren't sentient after all (and therefore that, in Aristotle's terms, they have vegetative souls rather than sensitive souls). But they'd still be whatever it is that the things we call "dogs" really are, and they'd still have whatever forms they really have -- and had all along, even if we didn't know it until then.

(In another sense, we could decide that "dog" means a certain kind of animal and then investigate whether the things we usually call "dogs" really are that kind of animal. But that's not what you have in mind, as in that sense non-sentient "dogs" wouldn't be dogs.)
 
Sure; not all of my attributes are associated with my substantial form as a rational animal. I have lots of merely accidental forms too. I'd still be human even my eyes were brown instead of green, or if I liked mushrooms rather than loathed them. I wouldn't be human if I didn't by nature* have an intellect, though, because in this context human means "rational animal."

 
Maybe I’ll never understand Aquinas or Aristotle, but I still don’t see the point. I’m not asking abou

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