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Chit-Chat » Should we update to new forum software? » 9/29/2018 8:47 pm

John West
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We'll be keeping this forum alive (but inactive) so that we have a fallback point if something happens to the new one. I would like to copy all the old threads over to the new forum, but I don't think boardhost will let me.

Chit-Chat » Should we update to new forum software? » 9/28/2018 7:36 pm

John West
Replies: 66

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You make me (and Jeremy and Dan) sound like the Terminator with the capital A like that. 
Boardhost has removed a lot of really helpful moderator features in the last year. It would be nice to get some of those back. It would also be nice to be able to split threads.

I also think it would just look nicer. (I know. I know: "It's a forum. Not the Louvre. Get over yourself, John." But I try to think like someone coming to the forum for the very first time and deciding whether to sign up, and seeing our rather late '90s-looking layout.) The dictum that “if it works, it's enough” has led to too many cities being paved with those ghastly cement blocks people now call buildings.

Chit-Chat » Should we update to new forum software? » 9/28/2018 6:36 am

John West
Replies: 66

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We'll announce it here and the link on Ed's blog will be updated. (Probably not right away, in the latter case.)

Religion » The Problem of the Trinity and Divine Simplicity » 9/28/2018 1:32 am

John West
Replies: 63

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Johannes wrote:

Again, the subjects of the modes of Being are the respective Persons. You cannot call "He" either the essence as abstracted from the Persons or the Godhead (i.e. the three Persons at once).

You see, I have no idea how to square this explanation with divine simplicity. I'm not denying that the following is what Catholic dogma states:

The Subjects of the personal properties are the Persons, not the common essence. E.g. the property of paternity means that the Subject with that property generates/begets (a Son). But it is the Father Who begets, not the essence. This was expressly stated by the Ecumenical Council Lateran IV in 1215

I'm just not sure how, given God's absolute simplicity, we can have a common essence and a property of paternity that aren't just the same (strictly identical) thing. In other words, my question isn't what Catholic dogma is. It's how to assay it in a way compatible with divine simplicity. And I don't see that you've done that.

But I'm going to leave this conversation here and get back to other stuff I should be doing right now.

Chit-Chat » Should we update to new forum software? » 9/28/2018 1:23 am

John West
Replies: 66

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I thought I should pass the question through a popular vote before going ahead. (We've been thinking of it for a while now.) Since boardhost doesn't let us see who votes what and this makes it quite easy to stuff the ballot box, I ask that if you vote you post. 

Religion » The Problem of the Trinity and Divine Simplicity » 9/28/2018 12:31 am

John West
Replies: 63

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Johannes wrote:

Having said that, the Persons are not parts of the divine essence or of the Godhead, and therefore neither the essence nor the Godhead is ontologically complex.

Do you mean “mode” in the sense of “mode of Being”? This is what I thought at first. 

(I'm still not sure I see how something absolutely simple can have three distinct modes of Being without importing complexity into it. God doesn't exist three times. He exists once. In one way. But I would rather take it up when I have more time. I'm also not sure “paternity”, “filiation”, et al., are modes of Being. I'm willing to accept that a contingent, externally unified entity has a different mode of Being (i.e. contingent Being) from a necessary “being” whose essence is identical to his existence (i.e. necessary Being), or that a dependent being (e.g. an accident) has a distinct mode of Being (i.e. dependent Being) from an independent being (e.g. a substance with its independent Being); but talk of a “mode of Being of paternity” or a “mode of Being of filiation” just sounds like we're importing aspects of distinct essences into the essence of existence. Was my father's mode of Being distinct from mine in virtue of his being my father? But again, these are the kinds of conversations we should be having when I can afford to pay real attention to them.)

Religion » Sola Scriptura » 9/27/2018 11:40 pm

John West
Replies: 4

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Ed gives some arguments against sola scriptura hereherehere, and here. (You can probably find more by going over the literature on early modern disputes over the rule of faith.)

Religion » The Problem of the Trinity and Divine Simplicity » 9/27/2018 11:00 pm

John West
Replies: 63

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The Subsistent Act of Being in filiation mode does not stand in a real relation to Christ's human nature but in a relation of reason. It is Christ's human nature which stands in a real relation to the Subsistent Act of Being in filiation mode, specifically is actualized by Him, or, using terminology previous to the adoption of the Aristotelian act/potency framework, subsists in Him.

Right. Res respectivae (as opposed to relations construed as we tend to now) allow this kind of talk, but I've always been suspicious of it. (It's part of the very meaning and essence of “before” that if x is before yy is after x. I make a similar complaint about a one-sided similarity relation in another really old post here.) It sounds like a narrowly logical (as opposed to a strictly or broadly logical) or conceptual absurdity.

Religion » The Problem of the Trinity and Divine Simplicity » 9/27/2018 10:57 pm

John West
Replies: 63

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Johannes wrote:

John West wrote:

If the divine essence has real properties or property-instances, it has ontological parts and is (by definition) complex (i.e. not absolutely simple).

No, it does not have.

This isn't some controversial thesis. It just follows from the definitions of “property” and “ontological part” (and my definition of divine simplicity is one Vallicella, who literally wrote the SEP article on divine simplicity, and Edward Feser, among others, use).

The Subjects of the personal properties are the Persons, not the common essence. E.g. the property of paternity means that the Subject with that property generates/begets (a Son). But it is the Father Who begets, not the essence.

Just look at the way you're talking about God. This is how you talk about something ontologically complex.

Religion » The Problem of the Trinity and Divine Simplicity » 9/27/2018 4:50 pm

John West
Replies: 63

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(ii) The Subsistent Act of Being in filiation mode started to actualize Christ's human nature at the moment of the creation of said nature.

I don't see how this explains how the Subsistent Act of Being, God, can stand in temporal relations and “before” and “after” are, unless you mean them in some other sense, temporal relations.

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