Classical Theism, Philosophy, and Religion Forum / Six stabbed at Jerusalem abomination

**Posted by Etzelnik** 7/31/2015 7:57 am

As you may or may not have heard, a religious Jew stabbed six marchers during the annual provocation called "gay pride week" in Jerusalem.

Opinions?

**Posted by DanielCC** 7/31/2015 8:13 am

Etzelnik wrote:
Opinions?

Yes. A person failing to act in accord with a set of moral tenants cannot be considered an argument against that set of moral tenants.

Last edited by DanielCC (7/31/2015 8:15 am)

**Posted by iwpoe** 7/31/2015 4:07 pm

Well, I think it goes without saying that you don't get to stab folks at random. Israel has no kinds of law that can restrict these sorts of parades do they?

**Posted by Scott** 7/31/2015 4:58 pm

Etzelnik wrote:
Opinions?

Sure: that attempted murder and aggravated assault are crimes, that people who commit them deserve to be punished, and that this guy belongs back in prison.

Last edited by Scott (7/31/2015 5:12 pm)

**Posted by Jeremy Taylor** 7/31/2015 6:59 pm

This was on the main ABC news here in Australia, along with a suspected arson attack by settlers that killed a Palestinian child. Amazingly, the ABC didn't prominently report the beheading of settler children by a Palestinians a few years ago. The ABC certainly does it best to keep up the high standards set by the BBC.

**Posted by Jeremy Taylor** 7/31/2015 7:08 pm

DanielCC wrote:
Yes. A person failing to act in accord with a set of moral tenants cannot be considered an argument against that set of moral tenants.

Ah, but haven't you heard, some positions are discredited because a few make stupid threats or even derogatory comments online, whereas others are not. It is one of those enigmas of modern life.

**Posted by iwpoe** 7/31/2015 10:06 pm

The whole political game is rhetorical and sub-rational for conservatives also. Besides we're fundamentally talking about esteem and honor when we're speaking of which position is and is not "discredited" in the relevant sense, which are themselves sub rational and only partially concerned with truth. So I don't understand this carping about the fact that it's obviously a illogical to consider a position wrong on the basis of the actions of a few stupid people who hold the position. Most Marxists after a certain period would not endorse the actions of the Soviet Union, but Marxism was tainted with the actions of the Soviet Union even unto this day. That's how things go.

**Posted by Jeremy Taylor** 7/31/2015 11:15 pm

I agree with you about conservatives. I find the one upmanship often engaged in by popular conservative and leftwing pundits to be deeply tedious, and I find much that passes as popular conservatism (in the U.S., much of Fox News is an obvious example) silly.

Marxism is an interesting example of discrediting you bring up though. It must be said a good argument can be made that the propensity of Marxist regimes to end in severe repression and slaughter has something to do with the nature of Marxist ideology.

**Posted by iwpoe** 7/31/2015 11:24 pm

Sure, you can certainly give a good argument. And people who would participate in a gay pride parades probably have a good argument, or at least what they think is a good argument, for their ideas. And some of them, the more thoughtful ones, think that they have a good argument against conservative positions. That's the point. People will engage in silly rhetorical games, even when they could argue, because they think it's more effective. And sometimes, it indeed is more effective. The argument presented is usually presented in a rhetorical manner against Marxism not in a manner that concerned to actually show the truth of the position.

Last edited by iwpoe (7/31/2015 11:32 pm)

**Posted by Jeremy Taylor** 7/31/2015 11:30 pm

I must say I have never seen a popular defence of left-liberal views on sexual morality that I would say constituted a good argument. I certainly will admit, too, I have seen many bad arguments from the conservative side too on these issues, though I have seen good ones it must be said. I think that a hell of a lot of political, social, and other kinds of popular arguments are founded on the silly rhetoric you speak of.