Classical Theism, Philosophy, and Religion Forum / Aristotelian Resources

**Posted by iwpoe** 7/05/2015 9:31 am

Scott wrote:
iwpoe wrote:
If we accept the view that Aristotle is not an anti-Plato, then the platonic resources we list in the other thread should also to a certain extent, count as Aristotelian resources.
I agree, with the obvious caveat that resources on Platonism provide general background but not necessarily anything much specifically about Aristotle's own version of it. No doubt that's exactly why you say "to a certain extent."

Just so.

The ambiguity hinges ultimately on who we mean by the "Aristotelian".

If you mean those people concerned with the particular details of the writings of just the man Aristotle, then more specific scholarship is necessary.
If you mean those who follow the same path of Aristotle, then the Platonic resources are very much theirs as well since they have the same path and much in the way of the same objects.

As for my preference: Amicus Aristotles, sed magis amica veritas.

**Posted by Scott** 7/05/2015 9:39 am

DanielCC wrote:
I would shy away from lumping the Scholastics in with Aristotle himself.

So would I, and not only for the reason DanielCC gives (though that's a good one). Aristotelianism is one thing; Thomism, including Aristotelianism-Thomism, is another. Aquinas had other significant differences with Aristotle as well, some of which have already come up on this forum (e.g. that for Aristotle, but not for Aquinas, a substantial form is an essence).

I'm not saying Aquinas is irrelevant; obviously he was in some way and to some degree Aristotelian, and he's certainly relevant here. Let's just guard against the notion that when we read Aquinas, we're reading Aristotle, just as we should guard against too much assimilation of Aristotle to Plato and Platonism.

Last edited by Scott (7/05/2015 9:41 am)

**Posted by John West** 7/05/2015 9:49 am

As long as everyone's careful not to get too far away from the way these words are actually used -- even in professional philosophy -- today. Specific language is great in philosophy, but I wouldn't want my use of language to become so obscure that people coming here can't understand me. Besides, if E. J. Lowe wants to call himself a neo-Aristotelian, and Edward Feser calls him a neo-Aristotelian, and everyone calls him a neo-Aristotelian but he breaks harshly with the Platonic tradition in some places ...

I agree about Quine, though. I've long complained about the way "platonism" is used in philosophy of mathematics.

**Posted by John West** 7/05/2015 11:46 am

DanielCC wrote:
Certainly the Scholastics deserve a thread of their own if not one dedicated to each of the major figures.

It would be good to have a thread for each of the major scholastics. The number of works on each and in each school will easily get lost in an "Aristotelian" thread. There are simply a lot of resources for each major school of scholasticism.

Last edited by John West (7/05/2015 11:47 am)

**Posted by Scott** 7/05/2015 12:25 pm

John West wrote:
It would be good to have a thread for each of the major scholastics.

I like that idea.

I'm tempted to suggest omitting Aquinas from that list as he's going to be all over the site anyway -- but then again, a list/thread of sources on specific topics within Thomism might be a good and helpful thing.

If we do give him a thread of his own, though, I think we should be careful not to swamp it with posts. I could probably list a hundred or more books just from my own shelves, and that sort of thing rapidly becomes hard to sort through if not absolutely useless.

**Posted by John West** 7/05/2015 12:32 pm

Scott wrote:
If we do give him a thread of his own, though, I think we should be careful not to swamp it with posts. I could probably list a hundred or more books just from my own shelves, and that sort of thing rapidly becomes hard to sort through if not absolutely useless.

We can just ask whoever starts the thread to absorb new resources into the main post as their time permits, and delete the additional posts. That should avoid the problem.

**Posted by DanielCC** 7/05/2015 12:37 pm

iwpoe wrote:
DanielCC wrote:
(Jaeger is of course obligatory to students of Classical philosophy. This volume defends an interpretation of Aristotle’s philosophical development as a move from theology to the natural sciences)
Funny how that's a development and story rarely told, praised, or recommended by any ancient figure. Indeed, the Platonic Socrates tells a nearly reverse auto-biography. I've never understood why philosophers of the history of philosophy are so rarely willing to permit their figures to not have a story that challenges them as an alien approach outside their own expectations. If you're just going to turn Aristotle into an ancient Greek Charles Darwin why not just read Charles Darwin's middling little Englishman's biography?

Que:

From Aristotle to Darwin & Back Again: A Journey in Final Causality, Species and Evolution

**Posted by Scott** 7/05/2015 1:34 pm

John West wrote:
We can just ask whoever starts the thread to absorb new resources into the main post as their time permits, and delete the additional posts. That should avoid the problem.

That'll work. You may want to be a little judicious about what to keep on the main list, too, or it may still swell beyond manageable proportions. I don't think we need stuff like One-Minute Aquinas, for example, even though it's a fine book for its purpose. I also don't think we need to re-list the many excellent manuals included in Ed's "Scholastic's Bookshelf" posts; it should be sufficient to link to those posts themselves.

DanielCC wrote:
Que:

Heh, it took me a moment to realize you meant "cue" here and were borrowing the q from "queue." ("Que" is Spanish for "what," and that's how I read it initially.)

Last edited by Scott (7/05/2015 1:38 pm)

**Posted by iwpoe** 7/05/2015 2:37 pm

DanielCC wrote:
Que:

The life story of 'a man who moves from natural theology to natural science' is Darwin's biography. Darwin initially studied to become an Anglican Parson and was higly impressed by Paley's book on natural theology.

**Posted by DanielCC** 7/05/2015 3:24 pm

iwpoe wrote:
DanielCC wrote:
Que:
The life story of 'a man who moves from natural theology to natural science' is Darwin's biography. Darwin initially studied to become an Anglican Parson and was higly impressed by Paley's book on natural theology.

I know this (and more fool him for the Paley enthusiasm).