God cannot be "above" the principle of non-contradiction, that would be meaningless. If he were above it, he could be above and below it at the same time and under the same aspect.

God is logic. And denial of PNC as absolutely true beyond our minds is madness. That the principle of non-contradiction is true and holds for anything and everything in our minds and beyond our minds is something we know to be true with absolute, 100%, contra-stardusty certainty.

Last edited by Miguel (12/19/2017 6:59 pm)

Etzelnik wrote:

You are right that the paradoxical nature of the proposition is madness, but that is in accord with our logic.

I ask because my brother is quite anti philosophical theology. This is something he posed to me, and I have no way out except to assume that God Himself is bound to the limits of my own puny logic.

Can God create ex nihilo? Isn't that also something human logic can't comprehend?

 
It's not "our" logic, it is logic period. How could God both be above and below PNC at the same time and in the same aspect? What we call the first principles of thought -- such as PNC and the principle of identity -- are insights into reality, not insights into our own mind. It is nonsense to hold otherwise.

God can create ex nihilo and while creatio ex nihilo is difficult to understand, it does not pose any contradiction. Not everything that begins to exist needs a material cause. A mystery is not the same as a contradiction.

We don't "assume" God is bound to the limits of logic. We *know* God is "bound" to the limits of logic; it is meaningless to think that God could create a square circle, for instance. And if you're still under the illusion that PNC is only an insight into the workings of our mind and not being itself, then maybe the following experiment will break the spell: can God create a square circle that we are able to understand? Just saying "we can't comprehend a square circle, but God can make it" won't help it here. Can God create a square circle that we can understand? Alternatively, can God make us -- as we are right now -- understand a square circle? No. He can't. Because even if it were the case that we're just unable to understand a square circle, still this fact would mean that God would not be able to make us understand a square circle, it is a "limitation", and one that follows logically.

Of course, it is not actually a real "limitation", for the limits of logic just are the limits of being; there is no such thing as the illogical or the non-being. God cannot both be and not-be. PNC is a direct insight into the nature of reality as such, beyond our minds.

Thank you, Miguel. I appreciate the clarity of your response.

@Johannes: It's interesting that you link that article. Both my brother and myself are decently well read in both philosophy and kabbalah, except that while I shape the kabbalah to fit philosophy, he does the reverse. Thus he is a kabbalist with some knowledge of philosophy while I am a philosopher (not professional, of course) with some knowledge of kabbalah. That matches nicely with the article.

I should point out, however, that Moses Haim Luzzatto (one of the greatest kabbalists in history) emphatically rejects the so called "kabbalistic" view, and reshapes the entire kabbalistic doctrine of tzimtzum, wherein God is spoken of as "limiting" Himself to allow for creation.

Last edited by Etzelnik (12/20/2017 2:56 pm)