Posted by Dry and Uninspired  1/07/2018 8:57 am | #61 |
Update on Adventures with Atheist Parents:
My dad keeps saying that the Church expects people to believe in God blindly, but I’ve told him several times that there are serious arguments given for His existence, and that whether he agrees with them or not, it’s not true that noone has ever given them.
But today, again, he starts talking about religion and says that, you guessed it, the Cruch expects you to believe blindly and that’s how it was when he went to church and it’s why he left. I said that it may be true that, unfortunately, noone at church ever presented them to him, but I said, again, that, if you want to know the best defense of a certain worldview, you should try to figure out what its greatest thinkers have said.
But then he more or less ignored it and went on about how sorry he feels for people being raised in the church.
Is there any getting through to someone like this?
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Posted by nojoum 1/07/2018 12:27 pm | #62 |
Dry and Uninspired wrote:
Update on Adventures with Atheist Parents:
My dad keeps saying that the Church expects people to believe in God blindly, but I’ve told him several times that there are serious arguments given for His existence, and that whether he agrees with them or not, it’s not true that noone has ever given them.
But today, again, he starts talking about religion and says that, you guessed it, the Cruch expects you to believe blindly and that’s how it was when he went to church and it’s why he left. I said that it may be true that, unfortunately, noone at church ever presented them to him, but I said, again, that, if you want to know the best defense of a certain worldview, you should try to figure out what its greatest thinkers have said.
But then he more or less ignored it and went on about how sorry he feels for people being raised in the church.
Is there any getting through to someone like this?
I'm not sure if it helps you but what's so great about God? What do we miss in our life here if we forget about God? What's the role of God in our life? I think if you can make the case that we miss the true purpose of our life by ignoring God, then you would not even need to give arguments for his existence.
Last edited by nojoum (1/07/2018 12:32 pm)
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Posted by Dry and Uninspired 1/07/2018 4:46 pm | #63 |
Update on Adventures with Atheist Parents:
My dad keeps saying that the Church expects people to believe in God blindly, but I’ve told him several times that there are serious arguments given for His existence, and that whether he agrees with them or not, it’s not true that noone has ever given them.
But today, again, he starts talking about religion and says that, you guessed it, the Cruch expects you to believe blindly and that’s how it was when he went to church and it’s why he left. I said that it may be true that, unfortunately, noone at church ever presented them to him, but I said, again, that, if you want to know the best defense of a certain worldview, you should try to figure out what its greatest thinkers have said.
But then he more or less ignored it and went on about how sorry he feels for people being raised in the church.
Is there any getting through to someone like this?I'm not sure if it helps you but what's so great about God? What do we miss in our life here if we forget about God? What's the role of God in our life? I think if you can make the case that we miss the true purpose of our life by ignoring God, then you would not even need to give arguments for his existence.
If I go in a direction sort of like that, then the problem of evil generally comes up. And he says that, even if God exists, he’d rather go to Hell than worship someone who allows all this suffering, and that nothing could convince him that a good God could allow it.
Last edited by Dry and Uninspired (1/07/2018 4:46 pm)
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Posted by Miguel 1/07/2018 7:28 pm | #64 |
Update on Adventures with Atheist Parents:
My dad keeps saying that the Church expects people to believe in God blindly, but I’ve told him several times that there are serious arguments given for His existence, and that whether he agrees with them or not, it’s not true that noone has ever given them.
But today, again, he starts talking about religion and says that, you guessed it, the Cruch expects you to believe blindly and that’s how it was when he went to church and it’s why he left. I said that it may be true that, unfortunately, noone at church ever presented them to him, but I said, again, that, if you want to know the best defense of a certain worldview, you should try to figure out what its greatest thinkers have said.
But then he more or less ignored it and went on about how sorry he feels for people being raised in the church.
Is there any getting through to someone like this?I'm not sure if it helps you but what's so great about God? What do we miss in our life here if we forget about God? What's the role of God in our life? I think if you can make the case that we miss the true purpose of our life by ignoring God, then you would not even need to give arguments for his existence.
If I go in a direction sort of like that, then the problem of evil generally comes up. And he says that, even if God exists, he’d rather go to Hell than worship someone who allows all this suffering, and that nothing could convince him that a good God could allow it.
Be careful not to seem too pushy with all this stuff. It takes time, too. With regards to "what's so grreat about God", maybe you could get him to think of our natural desire for infinite and perfect good. We have this deep desire within ourselves, a desire for ultimate being, for perfect and infinite good. Norris Clarke explains it beautifully in his "The One and the Many" when he discusses the "internal path" to God.
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Posted by joewaked 1/08/2018 12:48 pm | #65 |
....
Be careful not to seem too pushy with all this stuff. It takes time, too. With regards to "what's so grreat about God", maybe you could get him to think of our natural desire for infinite and perfect good. We have this deep desire within ourselves, a desire for ultimate being, for perfect and infinite good. Norris Clarke explains it beautifully in his "The One and the Many" when he discusses the "internal path" to God.
Sounds like a book I need...
I just went to Amazon and the book is temp out of stock. The paperback is listed at $35!
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Posted by DanielCC 1/09/2018 6:27 pm | #66 |
Might I suggest persons like this are too quick to equate God with what they see as the character in the Bibble?
God is by definition the supreme good, the perfect being et cetera et cetera, so saying ‘what’s so good about God’ or ‘God is bad’ doesn’t make sense - it is equivalent to saying ‘good is bad’. Likewise for actions this person considers wrong - if they are wrong then God could not command them, simple as that.
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Posted by Dry and Uninspired 1/20/2018 9:15 am | #67 |
“Be careful not to seem too pushy with all this stuff.”
I don’t think I’m pushy at all. He’s the one who starts the topic most of the time.
Just now, he started talking about how religious people want to kill unbelievers. And as if unaware of the irony, a few minutes later he started remembering fondly and nostalgically a communist ruler he once met back in socialist Yugoslavia.
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Posted by Mysterious Brony 1/28/2018 8:43 pm | #68 |
Hi Dry and Uninspired,
I'm not sure if this will help, but have you brought up atheist to theist conversions? For example, have you told them how Dr. Feser changed his mind due to natural theology arguments? What about one of atheism"s strongest defenders, Anthony Flew? You could also mention Dr. Sarah Salviander (An astrophysicist and a Christian). She was born and raised in an atheist household, but became a theist when she studied astrophysics.
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Posted by seigneur 1/29/2018 1:33 pm | #69 |
Hi Dry and Uninspired,
I'm not sure if this will help, but have you brought up atheist to theist conversions? For example, have you told them how Dr. Feser changed his mind due to natural theology arguments? What about one of atheism"s strongest defenders, Anthony Flew? You could also mention Dr. Sarah Salviander (An astrophysicist and a Christian). She was born and raised in an atheist household, but became a theist when she studied astrophysics.
Dr. Feser has not told enough about his atheist phase so there is not much to discuss about it, other than it was a phase. And only theists know Antony Flew. To atheists he is unknown.
Conversions occur both ways and, whichever way it is going, it's best to do it with eyes open. Whatever world view one has, it's best to have it on a rational basis and with implications fully figured out. Conformists, theist or atheist, are boring. Anyone with a positive world view, cosmology, etc., theist or otherwise, are always much more interesting to everyone around.
Philosophical enlightenment is not too different from religious conversion on intellectual basis. But may people be blessed with an even deeper conversion than that of an intellectual type.
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Posted by Dry and Uninspired 2/08/2018 7:10 pm | #70 |
Hi Dry and Uninspired,
I'm not sure if this will help, but have you brought up atheist to theist conversions? For example, have you told them how Dr. Feser changed his mind due to natural theology arguments? What about one of atheism"s strongest defenders, Anthony Flew? You could also mention Dr. Sarah Salviander (An astrophysicist and a Christian). She was born and raised in an atheist household, but became a theist when she studied astrophysics.
I haven’t talked much about this, but I do remember one time when he learnt that our Prime Minister became religious, his response was something like, “What an idiot.”
I don’t know if there’s anything I can do, except pray.
Last edited by Dry and Uninspired (2/08/2018 7:12 pm)
