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7/16/2015 11:30 am  #11


Re: Particularist Arguments from the Resurrection

Am I incorrect to remember Bill saying that he personally grounds his faith in religious experience? I cannot place the memory.


Fighting to the death "the noonday demon" of Acedia.
My Books
It is precisely “values” that are the powerless and threadbare mask of the objectification of beings, an objectification that has become flat and devoid of background. No one dies for mere values.
~Martin Heidegger
 

7/16/2015 11:33 am  #12


Re: Particularist Arguments from the Resurrection

iwpoe wrote:

Am I incorrect to remember Bill saying that he personally grounds his faith in religious experience? I cannot place the memory.

You're absolutely correct. He holds Christianity both as a properly basic belief and also holds that the evidence is sufficient for belief in Christian particularism ("Mere Christianity").

     Thread Starter
 

7/16/2015 12:03 pm  #13


Re: Particularist Arguments from the Resurrection

Alexander wrote:

What surprised me was the strength of the conclusion you took from your original argument - that historical evidence for miracle claims could be put aside when considering the truth of Christianity.

His conclusion was specifically about the truth of Christian particularism, not about the truth of Christianity full stop. 

 

7/16/2015 12:23 pm  #14


Re: Particularist Arguments from the Resurrection

Scott wrote:

Alexander wrote:

What surprised me was the strength of the conclusion you took from your original argument - that historical evidence for miracle claims could be put aside when considering the truth of Christianity.

His conclusion was specifically about the truth of Christian particularism, not about the truth of Christianity full stop. 

I like Alexander assumed Christian particularism was, essentially, the claim that Christianity alone was true, full stop: it was not readily distinguished as meaning anything else in my protestant background.


Fighting to the death "the noonday demon" of Acedia.
My Books
It is precisely “values” that are the powerless and threadbare mask of the objectification of beings, an objectification that has become flat and devoid of background. No one dies for mere values.
~Martin Heidegger
 

7/16/2015 12:28 pm  #15


Re: Particularist Arguments from the Resurrection

Hi Alexander, 

I typed a longer response, but let's try doing this a little differently. All else being equal, would you consider the “probabilistic, historical evidence” confirmatory of Christianity sufficient to hold that Christianity and only Christianity is correct?  

     Thread Starter
 

7/16/2015 12:31 pm  #16


Re: Particularist Arguments from the Resurrection

John West wrote:

All else being equal, would you consider the “probabilistic, historical evidence” confirmatory of Christianity sufficient to hold that Christianity and only Christianity is correct?

(Emphasis on and only Christianity, with as a way of salvation implied, especially if you want to focus specifically on the conclusion in John's third possible response. That bit, as we all now know, is the "particularism" at issue.)

Last edited by Scott (7/16/2015 12:36 pm)

 

7/16/2015 1:12 pm  #17


Re: Particularist Arguments from the Resurrection

John, I hope this doesn't go too far afield, but is it even right to say that confirmation of just the resurrection is sufficient to confirm Christianity *full stop*? Why wouldn't it merely confirm that Christ was himself paranormal in some respect or some other limited aspect of the complex that is the tradition? Wouldn't you need additional considerations to confirm the rest?


Fighting to the death "the noonday demon" of Acedia.
My Books
It is precisely “values” that are the powerless and threadbare mask of the objectification of beings, an objectification that has become flat and devoid of background. No one dies for mere values.
~Martin Heidegger
 

7/16/2015 1:19 pm  #18


Re: Particularist Arguments from the Resurrection

I hope it's all right if I hop in here even though the question is addressed to John. (I won't be home for most of the rest of the day, so if I don't post this now it won't get posted until at least tomorrow afternoon, and it seems important.)

iwpoe wrote:

John, I hope this doesn't go too far afield, but is it even right to say that confirmation of just the resurrection is sufficient to confirm Christianity *full stop*? Why wouldn't it merely confirm that Christ was himself paranormal in some respect or some other limited aspect of the complex that is the tradition? Wouldn't you need additional considerations to confirm the rest?

Of course, and that's part of the point. In fact, it's entirely possible to think the Resurrection was a literal, historical event that nevertheless doesn't support anything like the whole of Christianity -- even the belief that Jesus Himself was in any way "paranormal," let alone the sole Way of salvation (or indeed any such Way).

That's exactly why John is focusing on the specific claim of Christian particularism. His very question expressly assumes that one has accepted the Resurrection as a real paranormal event on the basis of historical evidence and probabilities, and he's suggesting that drawing (um) "Christianly particularist" conclusions from that belief may be making too much stew from one oyster.

Last edited by Scott (7/16/2015 1:23 pm)

 

7/16/2015 1:36 pm  #19


Re: Particularist Arguments from the Resurrection

iwpoe wrote:

John, I hope this doesn't go too far afield, but is it even right to say that confirmation of just the resurrection is sufficient to confirm Christianity *full stop*? Why wouldn't it merely confirm that Christ was himself paranormal in some respect or some other limited aspect of the complex that is the tradition? Wouldn't you need additional considerations to confirm the rest?

Right, and Craig is aware of this issue. He argues that Jesus's own radical claims during His life may give us reason to believe Christian particularism.

Scott wrote:

Of course, and that's part of the point. In fact, it's entirely possible to think the Resurrection was a literal, historical event that nevertheless doesn't support anything like the whole of Christianity -- even the belief that Jesus Himself was in any way "paranormal," let alone the sole Way of salvation (or indeed any such Way).

Right. What's more, even if it did mean that Jesus is God's son, if universalists are right, it could still be that He's not the only way to salvation.

     Thread Starter
 

7/16/2015 2:51 pm  #20


Re: Particularist Arguments from the Resurrection

You can also still think he's the only way but maintain that other traditions get you to him in some respect.


Fighting to the death "the noonday demon" of Acedia.
My Books
It is precisely “values” that are the powerless and threadbare mask of the objectification of beings, an objectification that has become flat and devoid of background. No one dies for mere values.
~Martin Heidegger
 

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