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11/01/2015 11:57 am  #1


Struggling with First Cause

I have read Dr. Feser's TLS and am struggling with connecting the dots at a certain point in the First Cause argument, namely the hand-moving-the-stick.  I get the simultaneous "regression" of causes down to the smallest components (e.g.,  neurons, atomic forces, etc) and eventually to our will.   Where the argument is interrupted for me is where is THE First Cause in this argument? And HOW does that Cause, i.e., God, operate in that specific hand-stick sequence?

 

11/01/2015 2:38 pm  #2


Re: Struggling with First Cause

The hand moving the stick is an illustration, so don't get too caught up in the details. It's intended to explain what's meant by a series in which every member except the "first" merely passes along some causal power to the next member. The argument is that in such a series, the causal power in question must have a source, and therefore the series can't just extend infinitely backward (any more than you could see a face in the last of an infinite series of mirrors each reflecting the one before it).

But the source of the causal power needn't be, and ultimately isn't, merely the "first" member of the series. In the hand/stick illustration, the ultimate "First Cause," God, is outside the series altogether, endowing each element with being and causal power.

I prefer one of Ed's other illustrations: a musician playing a song on an instrument. When the musician stops playing, the instrument stops making musical sounds, and the song ceases. But in this series, the musician is the "first cause" in only a limited sense; his own existence and causal powers still need to be accounted for. That's where God comes in.

Last edited by Scott (11/01/2015 2:41 pm)

 

11/01/2015 6:53 pm  #3


Re: Struggling with First Cause

Thanks Scott.   I like the musician illustration.   And when I was starting to read that, I thought you were going with the analogy of God as the musician.   So, perhaps my real difficulty is in the sustainment of existence in the here and now.  How do I explain that God is keeping creation in existence from moment to moment?   I know I'm asking for a lot and I feel bad putting you through this. If there is an article or chapter online or in a book that you could point me to, I would be grateful so that I do not waste your time.  As I deal with atheists, agnostics and the doubts of friends/family, I reach the point of existence being sustained and I can't connect the final dots.  I hope that makes sense.

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11/01/2015 8:04 pm  #4


Re: Struggling with First Cause

@joewaked I think you shouldn't worry about asking "too much questions." In fact, that's why this forum was established. Also check out Michael Augros' book "Who Designed the Designer." Other works by Dr. Feser such as "Aquinas," "Scholastic Metaphysics,"  or his blog are very helpful.

 

11/01/2015 10:14 pm  #5


Re: Struggling with First Cause

Funny that you mention Dr. Augros and his book.  I was just visiting the Strange Notions site and there's a current exchange Dr. Augros has with a reader.  Apparently, this fellow has the same question I have!   However, he articulates it better.   Here's the link:   http://www.strangenotions.com/why-must-the-first-cause-still-be-with-us-today/

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11/02/2015 6:06 pm  #6


Re: Struggling with First Cause

joewaked wrote:

How do I explain that God is keeping creation in existence from moment to moment?

Augros's book is excellent and I join in recommending it; likewise Ed's books and blog posts. But the heart of the point is pretty easy to state.

The Scholastic way of putting it is that everything that exists has its existence either from itself or from another. A dog, for example, doesn't exist by nature; if it did, dogs could never come into or go out of existence, and there would just always be dogs everywhere. So a dog must "have" or "receive" its existence from something else. (An explanation of the dog's existence must therefore come to rest ultimately in something that does have its existence from itself, and that's how the argument gets to God.)

The crucial insight is that, for St. Thomas in particular (who owes something to Avicenna here), "existence" is an act to which "essence" (with the one exception) stands in potency. Anything that exists now thus requires something to actualize that potency now.

Last edited by Scott (11/02/2015 6:08 pm)

 

11/03/2015 12:26 am  #7


Re: Struggling with First Cause

Scott wrote:

The crucial insight is that, for St. Thomas..., "existence" is an act to which "essence" (with the one exception) stands in potency. Anything that exists now thus requires something to actualize that potency now.

Scott, I believe you have nailed the crux of it for me.   This is what I'm trying to demonstrate to anyone who eventually recognizes a First Cause or Unmoved Mover, but insists that such a Being is only a clockmaker who winds up creation....  I need to study and reach the place where I can "prove" God's action as imparting, not just motion, but existence, so that his continued action is necessary throughout the causal series.  (That's where I need help.)

I hope I articulated my understanding clearly.  And PLEASE, correct me or refine this if necessary!

Thanks,
Joe

Last edited by joewaked (11/03/2015 12:28 am)

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11/03/2015 9:03 am  #8


Re: Struggling with First Cause

St. Thomas gives the basic argument in the fourth chapter of De Esse et Essentia[/url] (scroll down to or search for "Caput 4"). You'll find excellent expositions of it in [url=https://www3.nd.edu/~maritain/jmc/etext/pnt03.htm]George Hayward Joyce's Principles of Natural Theology[/url] (scroll down to "The Cosmological Argument") and [url=http://www.amazon.com/Aquinass-Way-God-Proof-Essentia/dp/0190224800]Gaven Kerr's Aquinas's Way to God. The heart of it is summarized in the first paragraph of my previous post, but I think the discussion in Joyce will be most helpful, especially the part that begins, "The other point which calls for notice is this."

 

11/03/2015 2:53 pm  #9


Re: Struggling with First Cause

Scott wrote:

St. Thomas gives the basic argument in the fourth chapter of De Esse et Essentia[/url] (scroll down to or search for "Caput 4"). You'll find excellent expositions of it in [url=https://www3.nd.edu/~maritain/jmc/etext/pnt03.htm]George Hayward Joyce's Principles of Natural Theology[/url] (scroll down to "The Cosmological Argument") and [url=http://www.amazon.com/Aquinass-Way-God-Proof-Essentia/dp/0190224800]Gaven Kerr's Aquinas's Way to God. The heart of it is summarized in the first paragraph of my previous post, but I think the discussion in Joyce will be most helpful, especially the part that begins, "The other point which calls for notice is this."

 
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction Scott!  I'll get to these resources once I finish "Aquinas" by Feser right now.   I've got Charlie horse between the ears.  ;)

Last edited by joewaked (11/03/2015 2:55 pm)

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11/03/2015 5:36 pm  #10


Re: Struggling with First Cause

"Of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh." 

 

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