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3/22/2016 7:04 pm  #1


'Nothing' actualizing potencies and QM

(I apologize in advance if this has been discussed in the past.)

I was reading some of the links in the 'Cosmological Argument' round up thread on Dr. Feser's blog and came across an exchange between Dr. Feser and the physicist Robert Oerter about causation and Quantum Physics that got me thinking about the arguments that Feser has presented in a couple of his books for the idea that potencies can only be actualized by something else that is actual.   

This is the relevant post on Oerter's blog: (which I can't include yet because I haven't made enough posts )

In discussing Feser's argument for the principle that "Whatever changes is changed by something else." Oerter quotes from 'The Last Superstition' (p.54) as follows:

Second, and as indicated already, Aristotle holds that even though a thing's potentials are the key to understanding how it can change, this is not the end of the story. An outside source of change is also necessary. For potential gooeyness, say, precisely because it is merely potential, cannot actualize itself; only something else (like heat) could do it. Consider also that if a potential could actualize itself, there would be no way to explain why it does so at one time rather than another. The ball melts and becomes gooey when you heat it. Why did this potential gooeyness become actual just at that point? The obvious answer is that the heat was needed to actualize it. If the potential gooeyness could have made itself actual all by itself, then it would have happened already, since the potential was there already.

He then tries to set out what he sees as the argument contained in the quote above:

1) For a change to happen, a potentiality must become actual.

2) When a potentiality becomes actual, either it actualizes itself, or nothing actualizes it, or it is actualized by something else.

3) A potentiality can't actualize itself (because it is only potential, not actual).

4) A potentiality can't be actualized by nothing (because then there would be no way to explain when the change occurs).

5) Therefore, a potentiality must be actualized by something else.

My complaint is with (4). This step only works if you assume that there is always a way to explain when a change occurs. But what if there isn't?

I didn't read Feser's argument in the same way here because I don't see any explicit mention in it of the possibility of 'nothing' actualizing a potential. As far as I can understand Feser addresses only potentials actualizing themselves (I'm not fully sure what to make of the idea of a potential that neither actualizes itself, nor is actualized by something already actual but is actualized by 'nothing'.).

I was wondering if Oerter started thinking in the way set out above because Feser introduces what I have taken to be a strong argument for the impossibility of a potential actualizing itself ('For potential gooeyness, say, precisely because it is merely potential, cannot actualize itself; only something else (like heat) could do it.') but then seems to consider the idea that it could somehow happen, so as to introduce another argument against the possibility. I was wondering if this extra argument is necessary and if it is raised in dealing with this point by Aristotelian philosophers other than Feser ?

In other posts Oerter goes on to develop an argument from Quantum Physics about shifts happening in the energy level of the electron in a Hydrogen atom that are 'uncaused'. From what I read in one of Feser's replies to Oerter's posts causes in Thomistic philosophy need not be deterministic. So I thought that maybe if 'nothing' seems only to actualize these potentials of electrons when they are part of an atom or molecule, something actual other than the electron itself is responsible for actualizing these potencies in a non-deterministic way. It seems this would be a way of arguing against Oerter's point if an argument was needed (e.g. assuming the idea of 'nothing' actualizing a potency has some legs).

Last edited by FZM (3/23/2016 11:28 am)

 

3/23/2016 11:21 am  #2


Re: 'Nothing' actualizing potencies and QM

Hi FZM,

FZM wrote:

4) A potentiality can't be actualized by nothing (because then there would be no way to explain when the change occurs).

​If someone wants to make a distinction between potentials and nothing they are free to do that, but I think that no such metaphysic is forthcoming.  

FZM wrote:

As far as I can understand Feser addresses only potentials actualizing themselves (I'm not fully sure what to make of the idea of a potential that neither actualizes itself, nor is actualized by something already actual but is actualized by 'nothing'.)

Its own nature is a candidate for actualizing it. The only problem is that we could never measure it, properly speaking. There's a reason why there's an orderly fashion in which causation happens, even if it happens in such fashion that it's totally unpredictable. The only way to explain this, is by appealing to the nature of the substance. Aristotelians here might try to analyse this under their apparatus and per accidens causation.

So if I give you a piece of wood and you say it's hot. It's hotness is not entirely attributable to the wood alone. Heat is accidental to the wood, as it is hot only insofar as it is made by something else which it passes along. Aristotle talks about this in Book V, chapter 2 of the Metaphysics. There is an explanation for why you feel the heat when you touch the wood, and not blow up the whole universe. Similarly, the change being realized at the quantum level is essentially attributed to the conditions that bring that change about (change the conditions, put in elephants, you won't get that change, but maybe something else). In this sense, although the change is being realized in-deterministically, it doesn't follow that it has no explanation, the conditions that bring about that change are the things that actualize it. Only indeterminately. 

Since I'm a bit busy, I'll wrap up my post here. Yair had a few polemical, but interesting things to say which I'd like to look at, and there's much to say on causation, and in particular, what necessity is. More on this later.

Last edited by Dennis (3/23/2016 11:23 am)

 

3/23/2016 11:55 am  #3


Re: 'Nothing' actualizing potencies and QM

FZM wrote:

I didn't read Feser's argument in the same way here because I don't see any explicit mention in it of the possibility of 'nothing' actualizing a potential. As far as I can understand Feser addresses only potentials actualizing themselves (I'm not fully sure what to make of the idea of a potential that neither actualizes itself, nor is actualized by something already actual but is actualized by 'nothing'.).

You're right. Ed's first two arguments are against Oerter's (3), not his (4). He doesn't address Oerter's (4) in that quote. (The reason is that it's not worth addressing. Nothing—no thing—isn't a thing. It's shorthand for “There is no x that exists.”)

 

3/23/2016 2:52 pm  #4


Re: 'Nothing' actualizing potencies and QM

FZM wrote:

In other posts Oerter goes on to develop an argument from Quantum Physics about shifts happening in the energy level of the electron in a Hydrogen atom that are 'uncaused'.

But the 'energy level shift' is itself a potentiality of the Hydrogen electron's energy level. The change is

i) from being X energy level to
ii) being Y energy level.

Furthermore, if there were no electrons, then no electron energy level that could possibly 'shift' about in their energy level. The electrons are in act and are the subjects of the energy levels. Now what causes the shift is either:

a) something in the electrons acting on itself, as (e.g.) the weight of (or mass in) a building acting on a weak point causes it to collapse at that point or
b) something external acting on the electron that alters the electron's energy level.

In either case, something actual is present and necessary. Furthermore, as we have seen, if either a) or b) were lacking then there simply would and could not be any shifts in the energy levels of electrons (i.e. something actual).

Similarly, if there were no particles or could be no particles, then no particles in motion or motion of particles (let alone changes in that motion, such as swifter or slower speed or a change in direction). Such changes presuppose particles and are potentialities of particles. Furthermore, it is obvious that such changes do not actualize the particles themselves for (as we said) they presuppose the existence of particles in the first place. It would be absurd to say that the particle's moving at Y speed caused the particle in questinon to exist or Timocrate's being 5'11" caused Timocrates to exist.

Last edited by Timocrates (3/23/2016 3:12 pm)


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3/23/2016 5:30 pm  #5


Re: 'Nothing' actualizing potencies and QM

We need to have a thread strictly about causation and false claims arising about causation arising from Quantum Mechanics. I think most of these come from a mistaken view that *causes* are strictly some object-like X acting upon a temporally and spatially adjacent object-like Y (a billiard-balls view of cause and effect).


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