1 of 1- Seán Mac Críodáin
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On Concern Trolling
I would like to draw your attention to a particularly insidious political tactic which is highly pervasive, yet widely unrecognised, namely, concern trolling. Concern trolling is the act of disrupting a group by pretending to be either a member or a sympathetic person, who is "concerned" about some tendencies, beliefs or actions of the target group. The concern troll claims that the target tendency or action is counterproductive to the group's broader goals; the target, believing the troll to be a legitimate concerned sympathiser, takes the "constructive criticism" on board, and either ends or moderates his activities. In attempting to defend oneself from concern trolling, it is possible to become hyper-vigilant and end up dismissing real constructive criticism from legitimate concerned sympathisers, so concern trolling in such a way that one will be found out by the target can itself be a useful tactic, because it can push the target towards an indefensibly radical position.
Some examples:
The concern troll infiltrates a group of radical Muslims and argues that terrorist attacks are counterproductive to the broader goal of proselytising Islam.
The concern troll infiltrates a group of radical animal rights activists and argues that attacking fur farms is counterproductive to the broader goal of convincing people to be sympathetic to the cause.
The concern troll infiltrates a group of pro-life activists and argues that showing gruesome images of aborted children is more likely to turn people away than convince them that abortion is evil.
"Is it not excessively ridiculous to seek the good opinion of those whom you would never wish to be like?"
+St John Chrysostom
- iwpoe
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Re: On Concern Trolling
This is a regular feminist tactic, indeed a tactic of all forms of political correctness:
"Aren't you concerned that this phrasing will encourage people to treat women..."
"Perhaps we should be mindful that this short of language unfairly suggests the inferiority of..."
The good news is that as a political tactic it has a hard backlash effect, where outlets who systematically ignore concern in general become more appealing than those who don't. Since people generally don't want to be made to look bad situationally but they also don't want the stress of hyper vigilance, that danger of backlash is unavoidable.
Fighting to the death "the noonday demon" of Acedia.
My Books
It is precisely “values” that are the powerless and threadbare mask of the objectification of beings, an objectification that has become flat and devoid of background. No one dies for mere values.
~Martin Heidegger
- Seán Mac Críodáin
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Re: On Concern Trolling
iwpoe wrote:
This is a regular feminist tactic, indeed a tactic of all forms of political correctness:
"Aren't you concerned that this phrasing will encourage people to treat women..."
"Perhaps we should be mindful that this short of language unfairly suggests the inferiority of..."
The good news is that as a political tactic it has a hard backlash effect, where outlets who systematically ignore concern in general become more appealing than those who don't. Since people generally don't want to be made to look bad situationally but they also don't want the stress of hyper vigilance, that danger of backlash is unavoidable.
Are you describing the political support of a certain individual who, it is said, cannot be stumped? 
"Is it not excessively ridiculous to seek the good opinion of those whom you would never wish to be like?"
+St John Chrysostom
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Thread Starter- iwpoe
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Re: On Concern Trolling
This is a regular feminist tactic, indeed a tactic of all forms of political correctness:
"Aren't you concerned that this phrasing will encourage people to treat women..."
"Perhaps we should be mindful that this short of language unfairly suggests the inferiority of..."
The good news is that as a political tactic it has a hard backlash effect, where outlets who systematically ignore concern in general become more appealing than those who don't. Since people generally don't want to be made to look bad situationally but they also don't want the stress of hyper vigilance, that danger of backlash is unavoidable.Are you describing the political support of a certain individual who, it is said, cannot be stumped?
Listen, I'm not saying I've made billions of dollars, but we're going to build a wall, and believe me, everyone on this stage knows they're so weak. Go back to Univision. Also, I've made billions of dollars.
Last edited by iwpoe (3/27/2016 10:50 am)
Fighting to the death "the noonday demon" of Acedia.
My Books
It is precisely “values” that are the powerless and threadbare mask of the objectification of beings, an objectification that has become flat and devoid of background. No one dies for mere values.
~Martin Heidegger
- Seán Mac Críodáin
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Re: On Concern Trolling
Listen, I'm not saying I've made billions of dollars, but we're going to build a wall, and believe me, everyone on this stage knows they're so weak. Go back to Univision. Also, I've made billions of dollars.
I'd still vote for him, though.
Back on topic, yes, I notice the pattern often shows up with regard to the idea of ordaining women. The trouble is, some of the people who advance such arguments genuinely are concerned, badly catechised members of the faithful, and it does not serve to dismiss them all as simply being enemies.
Last edited by Seán Mac Críodáin (3/27/2016 11:21 am)
"Is it not excessively ridiculous to seek the good opinion of those whom you would never wish to be like?"
+St John Chrysostom
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Thread Starter- Greg
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Re: On Concern Trolling
On the other hand, considerations of effectiveness are often important. I think it's a legitimate critique of Black Lives Matter protesters of Donald Trump's rallies that their actions probably raise the probability of a Trump presidency. I actually do share with them the goal of avoiding a Trump presidency, so it aggravates me that they play so neatly into his hands.
I don't share some of their other goals, though, so from their perspective, I might look like a "concern troll," someone who is trying to get them to moderate the behavior to which they feel entitled.
Concern trolling operates by distracting people from moral absolutes. A liberal Catholic might say, "If we prohibit abortion, though, we might alienate the millenials." The appeal gestures toward some other goal but offers the wrong sort of reason for our present interest (prohibiting abortion), where consequentialist considerations aren't relevant.
For that matter, protesters on the left might sometimes say that considerations of effectiveness are not relevant to the question of whether one should protest. Even ineffective protests should be engaged in, they might say, as a way of demanding dignity, etc.
- iwpoe
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Re: On Concern Trolling
Is there any reason that the existential problem of ordination can't be solved by the development or escalation of religious institutes of women in profile? I mean I suppose there's a more general problem of a century (in Catholicism anyway) of weakening religious institutes in general, but that being the case, if the only thing you can do of any note in church is sit there or be a priest, it's easy to see why spiritually enthusiastic women would want to be priests. Ooo, maybe they could be nuns in like one of all zero convents in most cities, because Catholics have been doing such a great job of making that look attractive.
Last edited by iwpoe (3/27/2016 11:39 am)
Fighting to the death "the noonday demon" of Acedia.
My Books
It is precisely “values” that are the powerless and threadbare mask of the objectification of beings, an objectification that has become flat and devoid of background. No one dies for mere values.
~Martin Heidegger
- iwpoe
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Re: On Concern Trolling
On the other hand, considerations of effectiveness are often important. I think it's a legitimate critique of Black Lives Matter protesters of Donald Trump's rallies that their actions probably raise the probability of a Trump presidency. I actually do share with them the goal of avoiding a Trump presidency, so it aggravates me that they play so neatly into his hands.
But he's gonna make deals, Greg. DEALS!
Fighting to the death "the noonday demon" of Acedia.
My Books
It is precisely “values” that are the powerless and threadbare mask of the objectification of beings, an objectification that has become flat and devoid of background. No one dies for mere values.
~Martin Heidegger
- Seán Mac Críodáin
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Re: On Concern Trolling
I want to respond to both Greg and iwpoe, but both will be tangents that deserve their own threads in the religion forum, so I'll make them.
"Is it not excessively ridiculous to seek the good opinion of those whom you would never wish to be like?"
+St John Chrysostom
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Thread Starter- iwpoe
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Re: On Concern Trolling
➜➜➜➜➜➜➜➜➜➜➜➜➜➜➜➜➜ ☦✝✡☪
Fighting to the death "the noonday demon" of Acedia.
My Books
It is precisely “values” that are the powerless and threadbare mask of the objectification of beings, an objectification that has become flat and devoid of background. No one dies for mere values.
~Martin Heidegger