Jimbo28 wrote:

 The rock causes the effect of waves in the water. Does the rock contain the effect formally or virtually?

Neither. The rock causes the effect in the water by actualizing the kinetic energy in water (i.e. passing it's own kinetic energy to the water).  The kinetic energy then causes the water to form waves which exists formally in water. Hope this helps.

Jimbo28 wrote:

My understanding of the principle of proportionate causality is that for any instance of a cause producing an effect, the cause necessarily contains the effect either formally, virtually, or eminently. 

 
You are right about that 
 

Jimbo28 wrote:

Neither? So does the rock contain the effect eminently?

 
No the rock does not contain the effect of waves eminently. 
 
Lets break it down. Before you pick up the rock to throw, it contains the effect of kinetic energy virtually. The water on the other hand contains the effect of waves formally and effect of kinetic energy virtually. When you pick up the rock and throw it you actualize the kinetic energy in the rock and from the moment the rock touches the surface of the water till the time it comes to a full stop it passes that kinetic energy to the water by actualizing the kinetic energy in water (this is where the principle of proportionate causality is maintained). The kinetic energy in the water then causes the waves to actualize.

Jimbo28 wrote:

Jason, I'm confused because in your first comment you said the waves are not contained in the rock formally, nor virtually, and in your last comment you said nor are the waves contained in the rock eminently. But these three categories are exhaustive. Wouldn't you agree that the rock necessarily contains the waves in at least one of these three senses? 

No the rock does not contain the effect of waves either formally, virtual or eminently.

Jimbo28 wrote:

Jason wrote:

When you pick up the rock and throw it you actualize the kinetic energy in the rock and from the moment the rock touches the surface of the water till the time it comes to a full stop it passes that kinetic energy to the water by actualizing the kinetic energy in water (this is where the principle of proportionate causality is maintained)

From this, you seem to say that the rock contains the waves formally. Would you agree with that? 
 

No most certainly not formally, that would be absurd. Like I said in this example the rock has only kinetic energy virtually, while the water has waves formally and kinetic energy virtually. The kinetic energy when actualized by the thrower then is the cause of the kinetic energy in the water. The kinetic energy in the water is in turn the cause of the waves. The principal of proportionate causality is met when the kinetic energy in the rock actualizes the kinetic energy in the water. Hence the rock does not need in any sense to have wave in either formally, virtual or eminently.

In an accidental ordered causal series, it is not necessary for the first cause in the causal chain and the last effect in the chain to have the same effects in either of the three ways. What is necessary is that each chain link in the casual series have the effects that they pass to each other and hence each link in the chain are the ones where we say that they meet the principle of proportionate causality. So let’s say if we were to conceive that the moment the rock passes all it’s kinetic energy to the water it goes out of existence (for whatever reason) the water then will still be able to generate the waves since it is formally part of the water not the rock.
 
Like I mentioned before

1. Rock has kinetic energy virtually.
2. Water has kinetic energy virtually and
3.Water also has waves effect formally
 
Given 1 and 2 above the rock simply actualizes the kinetic energy in the water and hence meets principle of proportionate causality.
 
Given 2 actualized, that means that 3 gets actualized which also meets the principle of proportionate causality.
 
There is no need to add the wave effect to the rock in any of the three ways.

Last edited by Jason (11/03/2017 12:59 pm)