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Theoretical Philosophy » How do you feel about WLC Kalam Argument? » 1/03/2019 6:23 pm

Noble_monkey
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Ouros wrote:

My problem is that I'm not sure what it would imply for science if it were valid: should we rule out scientific models of eternal universe?

Yes, it would mean that the models of an eternal universe are false.
 

Theoretical Philosophy » A better argument from contingency. » 1/03/2019 6:20 pm

Noble_monkey
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>that this Totality doesn't seem to be something over and above each of its parts, the totality is just a collection of each of those contingent things.


Yes, you are not missing anything. A totality is not identical to its individual parts, though. A totality is identical to the *sum* of its parts. But I do not think that this is at all relevant to the argument. The only thing that matters is that this totality exists and thus is a being.


>So if there is an infinite number of them then it seems it could have a mere internal explanation.

Making it a necessary being and so we can skip to the conclusion. (although Once we start talking about the traits of the necessary being, we can see that the BCF does not have them and so is not necessary making the BCF contingent).

Like John said, we can use different terms if it makes it easier for you to understand the argument.  I only use contingent/necessary out of respect for Ibn Sina. The same reason we still use "motion" when talking about the First Way instead of change.
 

Theoretical Philosophy » A better argument from contingency. » 1/03/2019 4:31 pm

Noble_monkey
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Calhoun wrote:

Noble_monkey wrote:

Since the totality of contingent beings is contingent then it must have an external explanation. 

This is a very controversial claim. Problem is that it seems totality of contingent beings(if there is one , this might also be controversial just like "conjunction of all contingently true propositions" is) is not itself some further contingent being or a being at all. Its a heap and that could have merely internal explanation.
 

Contingent here is a being that has an external explanation so it is not very controversial but rather follows from the definition of the contingent. That would be like saying that "A bachelor is unmarried" is a very controversial claim when it is true by definition. You are free to treat the BCF as a set or heap although I do not; I treat it as a totality. It does not matter if it is a totality since the totality exists and since it exists, then it is a being (recall the definition of a being was just anything that exists).

Theoretical Philosophy » A better argument from contingency. » 1/03/2019 2:57 am

Noble_monkey
Replies: 15

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Check the update, their objections are to an older argument.

Theoretical Philosophy » A better argument from contingency. » 1/03/2019 1:12 am

Noble_monkey
Replies: 15

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I am probably going to make some major renovations anyways.

Theoretical Philosophy » A better argument from contingency. » 1/02/2019 5:39 am

Noble_monkey
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Jimbo28 wrote:

There's a lot here, but I just want to look at one thing you said. 

Noble_monkey wrote:

Every property the necessary object has must be a property it necessarily has

This is problematic. If every property the necessary being has is necessary, then its property of having chosen to create the universe is necessary. One potential problem that comes up here is the freedom of the necessary being. If you believe that alternative possibilities are required for freedom, then it follows that the necessary being is not free.

But more importantly, if the choice to create the universe is necessary, then it follows that the universe itself is necessary. If there is no possible world in which A does not exist, and no possible world in which A does not cause B to exist, then it follows that there is no possible world in which B fails to exist, which is another way of saying that B exists necessarily. 

This of course contradicts the starting premise that there are contingent things. 

Ibn Sina does not have the same thing in mind as you have by property. Perhaps, "attribute" is a better word.

Theoretical Philosophy » How do you feel about WLC Kalam Argument? » 12/24/2018 1:09 am

Noble_monkey
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ClassicalLiberal.Theist wrote:

Noble_monkey wrote:

>It is also doesn't appear to me that an essentially ordered chain of causes, that regresses infintely, is impossible.

Has nothing to do with Craig's argument.

But yes, the argument is defensible.

Accidentally* And it may be defensible to the average but I think the skeptic could take it farther then the argument can handle.

What objections cant the argument handle? You have to explictly show how the objection refutes the argument.

Theoretical Philosophy » How do you feel about WLC Kalam Argument? » 12/22/2018 7:17 pm

Noble_monkey
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>It is also doesn't appear to me that an essentially ordered chain of causes, that regresses infintely, is impossible.

Has nothing to do with Craig's argument.

But yes, the argument is defensible.

Theoretical Philosophy » Alternative Solutions to Thomastic Cosmological Argumets » 12/14/2018 12:55 am

Noble_monkey
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IgnorantSeeker wrote:

Ok, so I have looked more thoroughly into divine simplicity and am more confused than ever. It seems to be begging the question to say that God must be simple because otherwise He would be imperfect. It sounds like the Ontological argument, which I find even more difficult to accept. Theologically speaking, how can divine simplicity work with a Trinitarian God? I've also realized further problems with the original arguments such as how intercession can work with an unmoved mover. How can we even have free will? I am really beginning to see the lure of personalism, although that would be heresy in my Church,

No problem buddy. Aquinas does the same thing in showing that his argument can **only** entail God and his properties in Summa Contra Gentiles Book 1 here (https://dhspriory.org/thomas/ContraGentiles1.htm#17) questions 13 through 49

Theoretical Philosophy » Alternative Solutions to Thomastic Cosmological Argumets » 12/13/2018 6:24 pm

Noble_monkey
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It can't be the laws of physics or anything not-God because Aquinas proves that the prime mover has all the divine attributes including intellect, will and power in Questions 3 through 25 here (https://dhspriory.org/thomas/summa/FP.html#TOC02). 

I don't think that we have to go through all the alternatives one by one since this is not an abductive argument rather we can just directly prove that it is God with all the attributes.

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